Nate Howell has approximately 76 days to adjust to his new reality. That is when he is due to become a parent with his girlfriend, Samantha Keith, who just turned 17.
"It scares the living hell out of me,â says Nate, 19, who is working at a pork-packing plant in his hometown, Elkhart, Ind. âI thought Iâd be in college right now playing football.â
Nate is one of five members of the class of 2009 whom msnbc.com has been following as part of The Elkhart Project. After high school, Nate had hoped to go to college and play football but didn't get a financial scholarship.
Now, facing parenthood, he and Samantha are in a tough spot â one that tends to come with a high price. Research shows that people who have children in their teens are less likely to get a high school diploma or go on to college. They tend to earn less in the working world, and children born to these teens struggle to keep up with their peers. For many, beating back poverty becomes the overriding concern.
âThe data is overwhelming that teen pregnancy has a negative impact on education and employment,â says James Wagoner, president of Advocates for Youth, a Washington, D.C.,-based nonprofit. âWhile that is a problem during any economic cycle, it becomes even more of a negative during a recession.â
After declining for 15 years, the teen pregnancy rate is now on the rise in the United States, which has by far the highest rate in the industrialized world. The number of pregnancies among girls age 15 to 19 increased 3 percent between 2005 and 2006, showed a study of the most recent data collected by the federal government and the Guttmacher Institute, the non-profit research group in New York that released the report last month.
Reasons behind the rise are debated, but some blame increasing poverty and an emphasis on abstinence-only sex education. The Guttmacher Institute notes that declining teen pregnancy rates first started to stall out about a decade ago when programs promoting abstinence, without offering education about birth control, became more widespread.
Samantha says that at school, she sees another reason. "Some girls as young as eighth grade who are so in love with their boyfriends and just think they'll be together forever, they just say 'Let's have a baby.'"
In her and Nate's case, she says, birth control failed. "I was very scared and shocked," she says about the moment she found out she was pregnant. "I'm still a little scared and nervous."
Struggles passed on to next generation
Not surprisingly, teens who have a baby are less likely to finish high school than their peers. Only 40 percent of teen moms who give birth at age 17 or earlier finish high school, according research compiled by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. About 23 percent of the younger moms go on to earn a GED. The gap is even bigger when it comes to higher education.
That interrupted education often means teen parents will earn less money throughout the rest of their lives. Girls who have a baby at age 17 or younger can expect to earn $28,000 less in the subsequent 15 years after the birth than if they had delayed until 20 or 21, according to the National Campaign report. Fathers of children born to teen mothers who were 17 and under earn some $27,000 less over the subsequent 18 years than those who have children with women who were 20 or 21.
Those struggles are often passed on to the next generation. Daughters of teen mothers are three times more likely to become teen parents themselves than girls born to older moms, says the National Campaign, while sons born to young teens are significantly more likely to be incarcerated. And the research shows that children born to teen parents tend to struggle socially and academically to keep up with their peers.
Samantha says she hopes their daughter, who they've already named Alana, won't repeat the cycle of teen parenthood. "I don't want her to make the same mistakes as I did," she says.
One of her first goals is to graduate from high school, says Samantha, who is now a junior. "One of my biggest concerns is staying in school and getting up in the night [with the baby] and then staying up all day," she says.
She's taking parenting classes at school now and trying to prepare to be the best mother she can. "It's a little baby and it'll be my responsibility," she says. "I just don't want to do anything wrong."
'I'm going to own up to it'
Despite the obstacles, Nate says thereâs no question of walking away.
âItâs my responsibility now and Iâm going to own up to it,â says Nate, who is saving for a promise ring for Samantha, and says he intends to marry her. Heâs been going with Samantha to doctor visits, and helping her with her homework in his spare time.
Nate is used to working hard. Heâs had jobs since he was 15, helping to support his three siblings and his mother when she was diagnosed with cancer. Now heâs working full time, sometimes more, at a local meatpacking plant as well as filling in at a pizza joint.
But heâs doing the math, and itâs daunting.
Out of the $1,100-$1,200 he brings home every month, he pays $200 in rent for an apartment he shares with a buddy, $100 for his cell phone, about $300 a month for groceries and $200 a month for the fallout from a car accident that also cost him his driverâs license. He also gives gas money to the guy who drives him to work.
Each week, he buys what baby gear he can afford for Samantha and the baby. Even now, heâs just scraping by.
âItâs scary ⦠not having enough money, having no car, to where I feel like I wonât be able to provide for both,â says Nate. He spent his childhood watching his own mother â single and always struggling to make ends meet for her family â and he doesnât want history to repeat itself. âIâm going to be a better father than I ever had ⦠I didnât know mine,â says Nate.
"I'm working for my baby's future now," he says. "I don't care if I have to work in a factory the rest of my life, as long as my baby will have everything it needs. I'm fine with a second-rate life."
If he sticks to his word, Nate will be an exception to the rule.
âWhat heâs doing is exceedingly rare,â says Bill Albert, spokesman for the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. âThe notion that teen fathers are sticking around supporting their child, and supporting the mother simply doesnât happen as much as we would like ⦠I want to applaud this young man, but I wonder where the couple will be in two years.â
Eight of 10 teenage fathers do not marry the mothers of their first children, according to a study by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancies in Washington, D.C. And, these absent fathers pay less than $800 annually for child support, it says, often because they are quite poor themselves.
Samantha says she's confident Nate is committed to her and their baby and that the couple have grown closer during her pregnancy. "I trust him," she says. "He's my boyfriend and the father of my daughter but he also my best friend and I can talk to him about anything."
Lower expectations
Even before news of the pregnancy, Nate was forced to scale back his expectations. A top athlete in high school, he had hoped to attend Ohio Wesleyan University and play football. But he didnât get the scholarship he needed, and some of his earnings at the grocery store where he worked were going to help his family.
He started saving what he could for a community college program, with hopes of getting his grades up, and then pursuing a spot at Wesleyan.
Nate got his job at Plumrose, the meatpacking plant, earning $9.50 an hour plus health insurance, a step up from working at the grocery store. For now, Samanthaâs prenatal care is covered by Indianaâs state health program.
Because of Samanthaâs pregnancy, Nate has put community college on the back burner.
Now his plan is to move in with Samantha at her parents' place for a while after the baby is born, save money so they can rent a place of their own and get a car. He doesnât want her to have to take the baby on the school bus.
Samantha is hoping to finish high school through a combination of summer and night school classes. After she graduates she plans to find a job. Maybe someday down the road she'll join the Navy, her dream before she became pregnant, she says. But she still worries about how the future will unfold.
"While I'm in school I'll have family support," she says. "After I graduate ... I'm still confused about what will happen."
A view from the ground
In Mishawaka, just down the road from Elkhart, a maternity residence for teens called Hannahâs House sees the hardship of teen parents up close. The home provides housing for seven pregnant teens at a time â as well as counseling, parenting classes and transitional assistance after giving birth. Last year, Hannahâs had to turn away 37 pregnant teens seeking a spot.
For about half of the girls who stay at Hannahâs House, the babyâs father initially is involved, says executive director Karen DeLucenay. The staff works with these young men as they can, and she is planning to start a support group for fathers-to-be.
âThe risk is that the dads want to be good dads, but they havenât thought through what that really means,â DeLucenay says, adding that most are focused on the tangible â like buying diapers, she says. âBut how to bond with the baby, and meet the emotional needs of babies? Sometimes dads have no idea how to do that, and no idea how important it is.â
At Hannahâs House, residents are expected to work and try to save money but since the recession hit, few have found jobs. Itâs also forced budget cuts in many public services. Among the casualties were child care programs throughout northern Indiana.
âItâs very hard for the young mom to stay in school,â says DeLucenay, âWhich leads to more poverty situations.â
750,000 teens get pregnant each year
It remains to be seen if the uptick in the teen pregnancy rate is part of a larger trend, though preliminary data from 2007 and 2008 suggest it is still rising.
âThe increase in the rate is one way to look at the issue â but look at the absolute numbers,â says Lawrence Finer, research director at the Guttmacher Institute. âWe have far too many teen pregnancies to begin with. We have 750,000 teenagers getting pregnant every year.â
Like the teen pregnancy rate, the number of abortions is also on the rise after having been on the decline. In 2006, the rate rose 1 percent over the previous year. While 42 out of every 1,000 teen girls gave birth in 2006, 19 out of every 1,000 had abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute's report.
Nate said abortion wasn't ever something he and Samantha considered. "It's not in my vocabulary," he said. The couple didn't want to put their baby up for adoption, either.
Not only do the teens who then go on to become parents often pay a high price, so does society.
U.S. taxpayers forked over at least $9.1 billion in 2004 for costs associated with teens having children, according to a report by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancies. The report, which the authors say is a conservative estimate, compiled research estimating the cost of health care, housing assistance, food stamps, child welfare services, provided for teens and their children, and the lost revenue due to lower taxes paid by teen mothers.
'Sea-change' in prevention
A major shift in Washington, D.C., will broaden efforts to prevent teen pregnancy. The Obama administration and Congress have allocated more than $100 million in the 2010 and 2011 fiscal years for a wide array of approaches to preventing teen pregnancy, including instruction on contraceptives and sexually transmitted infections. Most of the money will be allotted to programs that have proven effective, with a smaller portion for others seen as promising.
The new policy eliminates the requirement that government funds go exclusively to programs that teach âabstinence only until marriage.â
âIt is about as timely and encouraging an investment as I can imagine,â says Albert of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. ââSea changeâ is the term I would use.â
Proponents hope it will not only halt the increase in teen pregnancies, but restore the previous decline.
For Nate, already heading into parenthood, that struggle is distant and academic compared to the one he faces now.
âI never planned on having a kid at the age of 19. I always planned to have one later on down the road when I got my values and everything settled out and got a degree,â says Nate. âNow to find out that the babyâs due in (May) and Iâm in the same predicament my mom was in. Iâm trying to get myself out of that now. And I donât care if I have to work six days in a row, if I can find a job that will let me, I will.â
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I just wanted to remind people that adoption is an option for these young people that fall into the catagory of an unplanned pregnancy. I gave a baby up for adoption when i was 19 years old, more for the sake of my childs future. I wanted him to grow up in a stable 2 parent loving home, and be provided with all of things that I would not be able to provide for him. Adoption is not the right choice for everyone, but I had perfect peace in knowing that he would be cared for in a loving home instead of with me as I would have struggled to just get by. There is not much of a voice for birth mothers out there. It was the hardest thing that I have ever done or will do because I loved him so much after I held him for the first time. I also had to rework through my initial decision to give him up for adoption after he was born. The bottom line was that I loved him so much that I wanted a better life for him then what I could have provided at that time in my life. Now i am happily married with 4 children of my own, and I receive photos every year of my son. I think I need to write a book to give a voice out there for birthmothers. Please do not forget that adoption is a great option! I chose life, and I am proud of that.
Yes adoption is a great option. So is abortion. Both are good choices. Its what you want that matters. If you do not mind taking it to term, then adoption. If you don't want to carry it, abortion.
awesome story liz. It's people like you that have the guts to do the right thing who save the lives of children. Keep speaking out!
I think having all options available for you to make the right choice for you is what matters. Coersion of any kind is abhorent.
I became PG at 15 and adoption was never an option for me. Ever. No one else was ever going to raise my own flesh and blood. I knew I would not have the strength to carry a child to term and give it away. No way, no how. I had a good family and some who would support me until I finished college so that was my choice. Unfortunately, that choice was taken away from me and I never got be the mother I wanted to be.
It is really easy to be glib about this topic and what young, dumb kids should do when you have never been in their shoes. Trust me, tossing around options like adoption and abortion as if they are quick, easy, beneficial fixes to this very complex problem do a huge disservice to resolving teen pregnancy.
I wish these kids luck. I find that I am likely a better parent at 40 than I would have been at 15, but sometimes people rise to the occasion and do the right thing even if it is hard to do. All my best.
There's nothing 'good' about abortion, it's not something to be proud of. Yeah, I get it. You don't want to be pregnant. But don't act like abortion is some great act. Abortion is selfish and adoption is selfless. Both are legal but the intentions are totally different. Abortion is 100% legal and if you feel that's what you want, no one is standing in your way. I just don't think it should be glorified.
This BOY had no problem getting the girl pregnant and now he's playing the victim card? Contraception is great, I am a total fan of it personally. But it's not going to work 100% of the time. If you feel you aren't ready for the risk - then stop being promiscuous! That girl made her choice and now it seems almost like he's playing the victim card because SHE CHOSE to keep it. Grow up kid, she's doing all the work right now and I feel sorry for her having a baby with such an immature brat.
MSN almost seems like it agrees too. They posted sorry statistics about teen pregnancy without noting that it's not a done-deal that these kid's lives are ruined. It was more common when I was a teen to end up pregnant and married. I did, I finished school and certainly made enough money to afford my family's needs. I didn't let the pregnancy stand in my way, I kept on working towards my goals and my children are happy too. It can work, you have to be motivated.
It was 1969 and we were just out of high school. We had been dating on and off for two years. I was drafted and went to boot camp. When I went home on leave, she told me that she got pregnant just before I left. "The condom probably broke". We got married. I worked, went to college, earned a graduate degree and made a decent living. After supporting her and "my" daughter for 16 years she told me that I was not the biological father. The court ordered me to pay her alimony and child support. I have no legal recourse available to me. She now works as an MFCC helping other women get through the tough times in their lives.
Michael Bishop-1520606
Thank God for paternity tests! Sorry to hear that, it wasn't my generation and believe me, things were probably more difficult then.
Well in that line of thinking there isn't anything "good" about anything. Good and evil are entirely conceptial and subjective. Someone who believes there is a great force out there ready to punish them will say it is "evil" ... someone who believes they will be rewarded for it will say it is "good" . Ultimately the last person standing is right. The truth is there is no right and wrong, just people's opinions and their ability to enforce them on you.
Mandatory birth control injection at age 12 for all girls. Done.
Wow, talk about CHOICE huh? All medications have risks, side effects and failure rates. You must not have a daughter. Right now birth control injections are usually Depo-Provera which is the worst birth control I've ever encountered and I am definitely not alone in that. Even my Ob hates it.
To the "there is no good and evil" poster. There is good and evil, I'll use an obvious example:
9/11 Hijackers - EVIL (that's not subjective)
9/11 Americans helping others - GOOD (also not subjective)
Good and evil exist. Without it, there would be no order.
Boo hoo hoo. If these teens want to play adult games, then they should be prepared to pay adult prices. I have no sympathy for self-inflicted wounds.
My fiance and I were talking about this just last night...we eventually want kids someday, someday is the plan and if it happens sooner than we think, then Great! We'll have kids and we have the family support around us to help us. But we were talking about adopting, too...I appreciate the fact that all these superstars are going to other countries to give a child the chance in life theymight not have otherwise had, but we have kids here who are born every day who don't have homes to go to. LIZ, I'm so glad that you made the choice that you did, to have your child...your first son's adoptive parents obviously love him and appreciate the chance to have a child judging by the fact that they send you photos of him. I had a friend in high school who grew up in a big family and it was her dream to adpot, like, 20 kids all at the same time! There are people out there with that much love and I think it's wonderful, and sad that we don't get to hear about it unless they've happened to have starred in movies or tv shows. Promote every-day people!
These people know what they are doing. It is not my fault and I shouldn't have to pay for them. We always need people to pick cotton, grapes, lettuce and many other crops. For instance if I lose my driving license should you pay me for my mistakes.
scarab333
This was no game. I believed what she told me. I took on the responsibility as an adult. None of us wants to believe that someone so close to us would harbor such dark secrets for decades. No sex education class is going to inform males about this kind of deception. The courts and legislature have adopted your dismissive attitude. The result is that there is no recourse for boys/men who have been in this same situation.
just want to remind everyone of the cost of sex education on our elementary school students. Back in the 60's there was a crisis of gonorrhea and teenage pregnancy. Liberal lawmakers in their ultimate wisdom decided to take sex education away from parents and give to the schools. what they failed to mention was that teenage pregnancy and std rates were at 10 yr low...but it was still a "crisis" fast forward 15 years after the introduction of sex ed and std rates tripled, teenage pregnancy and abortion both doubled and all have remained at a higher level pre sex education. Another thing to note was that the liberal lawmakers after seeing evidence of the failure of the system decided to change the mission statement from prevention to education. The funny thing is we continue with this failed system. Ignorance is bliss
sugaraddict - long overdue for a birth control shot for boys starting at puberty, regardless of safety or side effects
First I want to applaud Liz for her bravery and selfless-ness. True love for your child is doing what is best for them no matter the cost and choosing adoption is the ultimate expression of true love. Congrats to you for making such a precious and sadly, rare, decision.
Right to Life groups should start preaching ADOPTION rather than being anti-abortion. I am a woman who is unable to have a child of my own and is willing to adopt but the fact is that there are few and far between any babies to adopt who aren't coming out of the foster care system and don't face serious challenges.
I wish more pregnant teens could find the strength that Liz showed and follow her lead. And wish that those with money, power and influence would put more funding toward encouraging adoption versus preaching against abortion.
This is so sad for these kids and all others who find themselves in this situation.
Some of the blame belongs to the self-righteous right that insist that they are the ones to control others lives.
I,m sure that they will be surprised when they are judged for their arrogance and pride
i am a libertarian and if you read my above post you will see it is the left who likes to control others lives for the "good" of themselves much more often than the right does. hence that is why i dont affiliate with either party.
and arrogance? lol yes the left passes laws thinking they know what is best for everyone in their ultimate wisdom....its the vision of the anointed and they are the definition of arrogance.
karieMe good post
I suggest that all teens (and all of us beyond our teen years) watch the MTV series "16 and Pregnant". It is the best method of birth control that I have seen in a long time.
The hard lesson learned from this series: Teenagers are simply not mature enough to raise a child and at the same time not feel "cheated" out of their life.
I love that show!
Dame Quixote - Both of those things are very much subjective. Do you think the people who perpetrated 9/11 felt it was EVIL? No. So who are you to say it is? The truth of the matter is the one with the power decides whether it be good, or whether it be evil. I personally feel they were wrong doing it, but evil... it is a concept that means little to nothing to me. They were wrong because we have laws in place to build order. They were wrong because we have the power to say they are wrong. We uphold our reality and our civilization is based on a certain order of things. They are also wrong because the steps they are taking to get what they want are futile. They won't accomplish anything but wiping themselves out at this rate, and their entire ideaology is based in rhetoric and fantasy. Which is why it takes brainwashing to produce a suicide bomber, because no sane human would ever think it is in their best interest.
I digress though. We all have our reasons to believe things are right and wrong, which is exactly my point. A majority determines "truth" by power. Simple as that. Some day your truth will no longer be true, and your ideals will die. Your right will no longer be right, and someone elses will be.It is all relative.
and "Americans helping another American" on 9/11 has the same argument attached to it. Someone didn't want them being helped. So to them it wasn't good. That is exactly what subjective means. If there were more people who believed that then not it would be called "aiding and abetting criminals". Because that is basically how we are viewed to Islamic extremists. Criminals.
Yeah I don't agree, because here I am, part of this system. It would be detrimental to me and others I know for me to say that killing us is right. So it isn't . But the point still stands... it is subjective.
Subjective literally means that it can be viewed by two different parties and they could come to two separate conclusions. Terrorists think it is right, Americans think it is wrong. Can you seriously convince yourself it isn't subjective just because it goes against what you PERSONALLY believe? Honestly you don't have to even answer that... because I know just how ignorant people are, and it wouldn't surprise me that you could look directly at the definition of something and ignore it out of spite =P.
They could get married and he could look at the military and he will be able to support his family. He can get $ for college and learn a trade. There is more to the military than infantry. I respect the fact that he is standing by his girlfiend. I would do the same.
It was evil, whether they felt it or not.
It's not against what "I personally believe", it's against what sane people "personally believe".
There's a fundamental good in life - helping those in need, treating people respectfully, etc.
There's a fundamental evil in life - inflicting harm on others, etc.
Regardless of what pseudo-intellectual types believe.
The 9/11 terrorists didn't feel they were wrong because they justified their actions. They had to justify their actions, because it was wrong.
JGL-1583541
JGL It is that kind of childish, adolescent "reasoning" that has allowed so many wrongs to go unchallenged. Just because some kid is subjected to brainwashing and believes that blowing himself up by a Wasabi mullah is good and just it does not make the act any less of an atrocity. The SS officers and German soldiers believed that what they were doing was right but the world consensus is that what Hitler and his minions did was truly evil. There is good and bad - wright and wrong in the world of human beings. Wait until you are about 30 and drop this silliness. Get your head on straight before you proffer any more of your opinions. It is disturbing to be reminded that there are still a few people out there who are not sentient, rational beings.
Perhaps some real learning - not only about abstinence vs. birth control - but learning - statistical, real learning - about everything from the birth of that baby through its childhood and adolescence - if kids, as they move through the grades, begin to see the economic, social, emotional life changes that a teen-age pregnancy brings ... that kids who loved each other at 17 may hate each others guts at 21, that wholeheartedly taking those two jobs, rather than getting a higher education ... that those 2 jobs will never provide the financial wiggle room to get ahead ... that cute babies don't stay 9 months old for 5 years ... teaching this all from a neutral POV - using state standards in History Social Science to teach these economics, and English/Language Arts to read and write about the long-term consequences, and Mathematics to study the costs/ comparisons between having 2 low paying jobs vs. getting an education with a future ... developing a seamless program that kids work through from whenever testosterone starts working ... maybe (??) kids will begin to see the link between teen sex ... and the rest of their lives. If education doesn't grab a kid as being relevant for him or her, "abstinence only" or with birth control added in - this is just one piece of a much larger, far more complicated puzzle.
Liz,great for your honorable decision,unlike baby killers,you are a breath of fresh air.how's that condom program working out in America?.750.000 teen pregnancy's a year,sounds like it's working.the last decade had the highest pregnancy rate for teens,seems around ten years ago,America laughed at abstinence. BOTH need to be in schools,safe sex,and no sex.These are mindless teens making adult decisions to have sex.
Bless your heart. My husband was adopted as an infant as was one of his sisters. Yes, birth mothers are not acknowledged as much as they should be, but the adoption option is wonderful and I am grateful for the birth mothers that select that choice.
With the plethora of information about pregnancies and STD's available now and the openness of the subject of sex with everyone from parents to school counselors, there is no reason for this to happen unless the two involved are stupid. There is no cure for stupid. I have no sympathy for those in this situation that choose to bring their bundle of joy into the world at the taxpayers cost. Abortion would be preferable to a generation of entitlement abusers.
Hmmmm....I received the Depo shot for 6 years after my son was born, until I was able to afford to get my tubes tied. Worked great for me! And no bad side effects either.
I support both adoption and abortion.... depends on which one you can deal with. But I have recently started thinking about my support of adoption as blanket support. I have recently seen first hand a child born to a young woman that had no prenatal care, partied with the usual drugs and alcohol (before and during pregnancy), an undesirable diet (for being pregnant) and several STDs detected just prior to delivery that was 3-months premature. There is nothing known about the father and his family history, because the father is unknown. No one can say if this child will ever be normal and not require all the special care and attention needed now. If I were going to adopt... would I really want to adopt that child or one of the many others like it? That my sound cold, but if I have the choice; make mine the child born of a woman that knew what she was doing before and during her pregnancy.
Exactly. I was born to a teenage mother and wish I would have been put up for adoption. Going through that kind of life was not worth it. I think it is very selfish of mothers to keep their children when they would be better off being adopted by a family who cares enough about them to take care of them properly.
If they are going to keep the baby, they need to figure out how to go to school and get a degree...no matter what kind of sacrifice they or the baby has to go through. It will be better for the baby in the long run. Quit trying to figure out how to buy diapers and get an education for the baby's sake.
so, let's see....
the baby is raised in horrible circumstances
has little opportunities
and then has to take care of the parents in retirement because the parents' lack of education rendered them unable take care of themselves while working, much less save for retirement
so, the child who was given a horrible life and who was not taken care of by their parents are now having to take care of their parents. what a slap in the face for the child
having a child as a teenager is hard, but it is NOT an excuse to not get an education
put the child in foster care for the first 4 or 5 years if needed for you to finish your education.
grow up and start making the right choices for your child...not for your own emotions, which is probably what got you into this position in the first place
Adoption is an option. But this "line" we are all fed about adoptive parents... decent income, two-parent family is a lie. There are no guarantees that the adoptive family is going to stay together. Maybe during that time period that they are being evaluated, there is a decent income and two-parent family. Too many times, the family breaks up just like any other family. Now the child you gave up for adoption is being raised by a single parent... could have been his biological mother? I know personally of a child given up for adoption who ended up in the state foster system. I was a teen mother. My daughter was born when I was 17. I supported myself, finished school, and have worked in the same company for nearly 29 years now. Never a dime of child support. I'm a happy, grandmother now. My life was not ruined and my daughter is a happily married, stay at home mom, college graduate. No guarantees. Just hard work.
Don't be a fool....vulcanize your tool!
This story is sad on so many levels...I have a 28 year old daughter who had a child at 17. That little girl is now on the verge of adolescence and it seems my daughter is now making up for all that lost time and has become an adolescent herself! She says her child seems "old enough" to be left alone, late into the night, introduced to boyfriends, make decisions a child shouldn't make. She's not old enough! I hear young mothers say over and over how they can take care of a baby, and of course they can, but you just don't know what you don't know and babies become toddlers, toddlers become children and children become teenagers, and teenagers need just as much if not more guidance than toddlers from mature adults, not an adult who missed out on being free in their late teens and early twenties and now is trying to recapture something that just can't be. I know this is not every single teen parent outcome but I personally know of at least one other very similar situation, and now I'm watching my grandaughter stuggle, wanting and needing so much from her mother (father long gone) and I know she is not going to get it. I can only imagine what might happen when that first boyfriend comes along...and yes, I do all that I can for her, but she wants her mother, and dreams of her father...
Glad it worked for you. One American woman out of 150 million. Even planned parenthood warns that if you get a Depo shot and DO (as many women will) experience bad side effects, you have to grin and bear it until the shot wears off.
Anyhow, my point is, we simply cannot stick every teenage girl on hormones. It's not going to work and it's unfair to them. Should they want BC voluntarily, it should be a decision that's made not just because they want to have "all the sex they want without worrying about getting pregnant". We're a nation of drugs. It's kind of sad.
I chose the IUD for now, DH chose a vasectomy. We both came to the decision very thoughtfully as adults. Teenagers don't exactly make great decisions - which explains the drugs, reckless sex, and binge drinking many succumb to.
Tired of silly forgets that he is an abortion survivor....
The economic cost to America (51 million aborted tax payers) will be realized in Silly's generation- they are footing the bill for the Greatest Generation, and aborted the Payers that would have supported Silly's generation.....
Silly's generation looses.
I do not get it; with all the options for birth control out there (and I'm NOT talking about abortion) what is it that people don't get about responsible sexual behavior????? I work in the field of child welfare and I cannot believe the numbers of teen pregnancies and births that wind up with kids abused and neglected (and frankly it ain't just teens, even adults have babies they can't or won't care for). KEEP YOUR PANTS ON, ZIPPED UP OR USE BIRTH CONTROL!!
Sex education has never been "taken away" from parents. They have always had the freedom to address sex with their children, even if their comments conflict with the teachings of the school. And, I believe, most schools permit parents to have their children excused from sex education classes. At least, they did when I was in HS.
Sugaraddict- The injection form of birth control has to be given every three months,(which means a person has to actually show up at a Dr's office to get it and good luck with that with a 12 year old) it causes bone loss if a person doesn't get enough calcium and it's only recommended that a person take it for two years and then find another form of birth control. Educate yourself on the forms of birth control so you'll know what you're talking about.
Not everyone is up for adoption. That's why we also have abortion. Plus, if people keep having babies and putting them up for adoption, how will the children who were already up for adoption get adopted if all the "cute" babies keep coming in? Not everyone wants to adopt toddlers or older children.
And, though sad it's the truth, most people don't want to adopt babies and children of minorities. The babies who have a better chance of being adopted are white babies.
How do you know they were actually adopted and didn't grow up on the street?
It's not an option for everyone.
What do you want? A gold star? A big chocolate chip cookie? No one gives a sh*t about what you chose so quit acting like it makes you superior in some way.
Why do you assume that all people who get pregnant by accident are irresponsible people?
Pills and condoms are not 100% effective. That is why we have abortion, it's a last resort.
i did the same as nate,i got married at twenty and it was the right decision for me.but at that time if a guy was willing to work,there was work.
Jeano,
I am going to check out that show. Unfortunately, age is not always a guarantee of one's readiness to be a parent. My fiance was an "oops baby", born when his mother was 28 years old. Even at that age, she wasn't mature enough to raise a child and not feel cheated. In subtle ways, she has made him feel guilty for being born and disrupting her life's plans. I feel compassion for teen parents, who often don't know better, but at her age, she was definitely old enough to include reliable contraception in her life's plans.
Michael Bishop and Dame, I can see how you would misinterpret my message and call it an undeveloped opinion, but I won't fault you for being short sighted. It is hard to grasp concepts like infinity. Most people's heads hurt just by toying with the notion. It is the same type of thought process when accepting the absence of good and evil. We are the shapers of our reality. Our intentions, and our combined energy create the concepts of good and evil. That is what makes it real to us, but it is not inherently real. If there were no living organisms in the entire universe... is there still good and evil? Is a sun evil for exploding? Is an asteroid good for knocking a comet off a path to destroy a plant? Things just ARE. It is our existence that personifies them. I will therefore agree that for all practical purposes there is good and evil, but beyond that I refuse to accept it as a physical property of our universe. Good and Evil are not like Gravity and Quantum Entanglement. They are not volume and mass... and you cannot quantify them. You can't say Good = x, and Evil = y, and x * 42 = y^2 . That is why they are concepts and not properties of the universe. It is really a simple concept, but as you pointed out... limited in its applications on Earth. Hardly juvenile though... and I take offense to the implication =P. Arguing the semantics of it would be futile.
Granted I will concede the point is lost on our discussion. There are inherent goods and evils to human reality yes, but those values, especially those in the "grey areas", are in constant flux. What is true today will not necessarily be true tomorrow. Yes killing people in cold blood is not likely to become an Olympic event any time in the next few thousand years, and hopefully not ever ;), but 200 years ago wearing anything akin to a miniskirt would probably get you burned as an "evil witch". Keep that in mind when you formulate your own witch hunts to abolish your brand of evil.
I do heartily disagree that my opinions are based in any kind of "adolescent fantasy". The truth is ugly, but it cannot be denied. What you choose to do with that truth is entirely up to the subject. Personally I adhere to many conceptual realities. I choose to do so, because I know that as far as my life is concerned it doesn't do me any good to reject false reality just out of spite. There are billions of humans on this world all fighting to make their reality the dominate one, and I know better than to rail against the establishment with some fool's errand of enlightening the masses. I do have an advantage however of being able to see everything through the eyes of a cynic. I base my life choices off cause and effect, and also in relation to what I perceive and experience in the world.
I can see someone's love for an object, and their worship of it. I can use that emotion to my advantage, recognize that object the way they do. See what they are seeing in it. Understand what feelings they are using to develop those emotions. I can empathize with them, but I do not love that object, I only see it for what it is, and I see what effect it has on people. While they are enraptured by it, I am wary of it and the power it seems to have. I will pretend to love it if I need to. Pretend to give it the attention other's deem it deserves. In many ways I am an actor in a play, and that play is life. I can go through the motions as anyone can, and you would never know me the player in a part. If I say what you want to hear, and do what you think I should be doing... am I the good in your universe? As long as I play my part you would say so, and if I fiddled the tune to my death you would remember me so. The truth may be altogether different however... but it is not my truth that shaped your reality, it was yours.
Logic doesn't have to be as cold and calculating as people fear. I use logic as much as I can, but I also realize that in the scope of our society, emotions hold sway. I use positive emotions, and positive understanding to shape my world the way I want it, and it works. I have love, happiness, and wealth. I choose these things because in the end I am human, and I can let myself enjoy my "fake reality". It doesn't make it any more real... or any less enjoyable for me. That is my balance. And I don't sit and worry about how I am taking pleasure in a concept.
When it comes to making choices for other people though, I tend to only look at the consequences. If what they are doing is going to adversely impact me or my interests then I will be opposed to it. If not... then go nuts. I try to look forward and broad as far as possible and hypothesize theoretical consequences as well. For instance I would look at the impact of teen pregnancy on the poverty level, standard of living, and population bloom over the next 50 years to make an informed decision on what steps need to be taken with it. In the same grain I would look at its effect on other members of our society, and then judge what effect their condition would have on me as well. If it makes a lot of other people unhappy in the long run that may indirectly effect me regardless of if the direct impact did. Most people just try to satisfy some initial emotional reaction and don't even regard the consequences for anyone.
Michael Bishop-
Thanks for making my point. You made the adult choices and you don't want to deal with the repercussions. Had you kept it in your pants, she would not have been able to trap you. And let's not even go into the lousy judge of character you are. Or was that your other head making the decisions?
Again....NO SYMPATHY FOR SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS!!!!
JGL-1583541, there is also no such thing as altruism. It is a human ideal that sounds nice on paper but simply doesn't exist in reality. Every single being that lives is selfish, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. It is what continues the existence of life.
Kozakura, I'm not sure if that paragraph is a trap or an invitation for more philosophy :), because judging by the comments I've already made I would have said I'd be the first person to agree with you on that point. There are no truely selfless acts.
But....
Of course it there is an exception to every rule. Altruism in its literal form can exist any number of times and has existed on numerous occasions and will exist again. All it takes is someone to do something that is harmful to themselves or their means of survival in order to allow someone else to live or prosper. (By doing that, you satisfy the definition of Altruism, and you would have to agree that people do sometimes do that because it has happened) Yes in the end all things are selfish, but altruism by definition doesn't exclude selfishness. All it takes is for your personal happiness to come from the approval and/or gratitude of others. A true cynic can argue that everything is selfish. He would be right, but it really doesn't matter in practice any more than coming to the realization that good and evil don't exist. Selflessness in our reality is also defined, and by definition its parameters can be satisfied and therefore it exists within the scope of our reality(in other words by human definition). In TRUTH and to a completely objective observer it doesn't exist, because no matter what you choose to do what is important to you. If it is the life of your loved ones, you chose to satisfy your need to protect them and preserve that which you feel is important in life. If it is your life... well that is just obvious =P.
There are no truely unselfish acts. That is the mantra of the cynic, and the root of every action. Whether or not others perceive your act to be unselfish, in the end if it didn't bring you a feeling of joy, a fulfillment of duty, or the gratification of a need, you wouldn't do it. Even sacrificing your life for another is selfish because deep down you felt the need to do it. You did it to fulfill that need. Again anyone can point out that while this is true, it doesn't take away from the inherent "good" of the action. Basically because by default we all have to accept that it is impossible to go against that which we want to do and still have free will. Even if someone forces you into action by gunpoint you still have to accept that your life is worth the action. If it isn't and you choose death then all you did was decide that whatever the other choice was, was more important to you. In the end both options are the selfish one. Even simply giving up and saying "it isn't worth it", is selfish. You chose rest over struggle. It's an infinite loop.
The best we can do is go by human definition of something(who's definition you go by opens up my original discussion anew =D), but that just argues the counter-point to everything I've said so far... which is reality is a construct of our collective imagination, and the most real we can get is scientific and mathematical equations, because they aren't given to interpretation, they are laws in place in the universe that govern cause and effect. Even that could be subject to interpretation by someone with a much greater perspective than any of us have, but I am not such a being, and right now that is all I have to go on ;).
My original point in this thread was and continues to be: Everything that is a concept is up for interpretation. In this case, the "good and evil" of abortion started it. It is an easy example because so many people think it is "evil" and so many other people think it is "good" (or at least not at all evil... the majority wouldn't say it is any better or worse than a root canal... medical precedure to get rid of something you need to get rid of... but you get the point I hope) Good and evil are two of the most widely interpreted concepts of our world. So many things are done in the name of good, and so many things are done to combat evil. Some of the worst events our civilization has ever endured. So my problem is with how liberal people are with their definitions of such lofty concepts. It is tantamount to making excuses to kill someone. There is no "excuse". You do it to accomplish a goal, but don't hide from your actions behind a concept. That is what I take issue with. You don't shoot a doctor and say he is evil and you are good. You don't wave your arms and cry out in the name of God and bring forth judgement on the unworthy. You have no such power... none of us do. You are not a divine judge, the Word of the Lord, or the right hand who carries the Sword. You are a person with a personal problem with something. The fact you have to make up excuses to yourself to do something in the first place would be an intelligent person's initial clue that what they are doing is probably stupid. Be wary of any sentence you say to yourself that starts with "I have to do this because...." You don't have to do anything. You want to do this because... is closer to the truth.
But yeah dunno where you got the inclination I would disagree with you Kozakura =P. Ideals are always that way. Thanks for the conversation starter though :)
in hindsight I see you were probably just adding to my sentiment Kozakura =P. Hope you enjoyed the additional input anyway lol.
^_^ I did, very much so. >_> I admit I have a habit of being unclear with my words :P
We rasied a son and daughter, and told them right up front when they entered their teen years "you have sex, you create a child it will be put up for adoption. You won't keep it and there will be no abortions. So think long and hard before you do something. Come to us, talk about birth control, but really think about what you want to do". And they did! Parents need to be parents. I feel for this couple, and I admire their tenacity, but in the best interests of everyone including the child, they should put the child up for adoption to a more mature established couple who are unable to have children, but desire to be parents. In the long run, everyone wins.
To me, forcing young parents to give a child up for adoption is as bad as forcing them to have an abortion. If they want to put the child up for adoption, that's one thing, but if they want to take responsibility for the life coming to this world through them, then I believe you (and we, as a society) should do everything we can to support them through that decision.
Yes, having a child while still a teen is tough. My wife and I had our first child while we were both in college. We swallowed our pride, accepted aid from social programs, and got through those first few years. I made sure my wife completed her degree. I let mine go after my first two years of schooling, as we moved to another area for a better job market. In time, my job situation improved and we got off the programs. Some time (and a number of kids) later, I went back to school and finished my degree. It was tough, but we made it through, and I believe our kids are all the stronger for it. We are contributing members of society who have repaid (via our tax obligations) far more than we ever received.
We've been married almost 17 years now, and I find myself back in school again--this time, working on a master's degree. You know what? Had I continued my school without our "interruption," I doubt I would have done as well in my studies and I likely never would have ended up in my current profession (before baby, I was a music major--now am an IT guy with a baccalaureate degree in business management and network administration, and I'm working to complete a M.A. in Organizational Leadership). Sure, life was hard because we had a child early, but is it really in anyone's best interest to allways have it easy?
The way I look at it, having children young had (and has) benefits and drawbacks. I've learned more about delayed gratification than I ever learned as a child. I've learned the real meaning of responsibility, since others now depend on me. I've also learned that, as parents, even though we often want the best for our kids, sometimes we just need to work with what comes their way. I spent a significant chunk of time last nigh and this morning working through some issues with one of our sons. You know what? Although the thing we're working through is not a pleasant issue, I'm glad to know that I'm closer to my son (and our other kids) than I ever was to my father.
So, I, for one, understand the kind of pain and difficulty you'd want to spare your child by taking such a position, but I can also tell you that taking such unilateral action is not without cost. I'm very close to someone who was one of those "unfortunate accidents" in a small town where everyone pressured the mother to abort or surrender the baby. I don't know how she managed to endure, but she did, and her daughter's life is a testimony to her courage. Did that young mother miss many aspects of a traditional high school experience? Absolutely. There were no alternative schooling options in those days, aside from sending the girl away to a private girls' school that had a maternity wing. Did having a child irrevocable change her life? Absolutely. Having a child when my wife was only 19 changed our lives. Yet one set of missed experiences was replaced by other experiences not familiar to everyone.
You should see how well my wife can develop rapport with young gals who are dating or considering marriage. You should see her in her relationships with young brides and mothers. You see, my wife has been through it now. She knows how tough it is to have a bunch of preschoolers at home, and how it feels to be conflicted, at times, regarding life goals, ambitions, and realities. You see, the road we chose together is not the road her parents (or most of her family) would have selected for her, but it is the road we traveled, and it has been full of so many things that I do not have room to tell. There have been marvelous days, and sad ones; there have been peaks and valleys. Yet, we both agree that we would never go back. You see, it is the journey that has shaped us into the persons we now are, not the path someone thought we should travel. For us, there is no other road, nor could there be one. It is our road, and we will travel it together, for as long as we both shall live.
Coersion is not appropriate in this situation and parents should be awfully careful about what they think is the right way to "save" their kids. You can be making a choice that will forever negatively impact your relationship with your kids.
My mom made that choice and our relationship will never be the same. I will never trust or respect her on any serious level for acting as if my wishes about my own future and my own body were beyond my comprehension. She made it a mission to make sure I was never the teenage mom (at 19) that she was (despite the fact that she beat all of the odds this article mentions) and in the process ruined whatever bond we could have had as mother and daughter. To this day, she thinks the sacrifice was worth it. For me, it is an unforgivable violation that will preclude her from ever knowing her current grandchildren.
Believe me when I say coersion has no place in this issue. You will pay one way or the other if you take a slash and burn stance on this topic. If your kids got into this mess, believe me, they deserve to have input into how to get out of it.
Teen girls should be allowed to choose. However, they should choose wisely because it's an extremely tough decision no matter WHAT choice is made.
yvonnemari, i'm hearing from this that your mother didn't want you to have hardships so early in your life and you're seeing that as a personal attack? You want the best for your children, right? I'm sure she wanted the same thing for you and she saw that if you were led to such behavoir that could put you at risk of having such a drastic life change that your school and life and career would suffer. Sounds like she loves you.
yvonemari It is to bad that you hate your mother. I guess it would of been better if she let you spread your legs to everybody. Then you would be be complaining that she did not care what you did. YOU ARE ONE UNGRATEFUL PERSON. Good luck with your kids.
You and I clearly have a different definition of love.
Mine will not include doing anything remotely as self-serving as this should my daughter (or son) come to me as a pregnant teenager.
You can believe what you want to. Don't let me hold you back. But, again, if you believe the ends justifies the means, just be willing to deal with the consequences of that philosophy.
And clearly you aren't dealing with a full deck if you think one mistake equals wanton promiscuity.
You would force your child to give up her child no matter what the situation? Wow, that is really selfish of you. In the situation above, Nate is working hard because he realizes that he as a responsibility. Samantha also wants to finish school and start working. Yes, life will be hard for them, but at least they are mature enough to try and make things work. Maybe you should stop worrying about how much it will cost you and the possible embarrassment it will cause you and think about what the teenagers want.
Bibol what you said was rude and inflammatory and you have been reported. Just because you get pregnant at a young age does not necessarily mean that you are running around having sex with everyone. We do not know the entire story here and it is not your place to judge.
Yvonne good luck to you. I don't think you are ungrateful at all. It sounds like your mother was not as supportive of you as she should have been. If you were 19 years old she shouldn't have been pushing you one way or another. You were legally an adult that could make your own decisions. There were plenty of ways for you to get information and decide what to do. I'm sorry that your mother made the decision for you.
Good luck!
Yvonnemari, My heart breaks for you. I was in a similar situation at 19. My parents let me know that no matter what decision I made that they loved and supported me. This made all the difference while a carried my daughter to term through a very difficult pregnancy, and my struggling years at university after. I wish I could turn back time and give you a hug, since I can't I just want you to know that women are out here, we hear you. We respect your journey in life and hope that the roads yet to be traveled are less painful for you.
I could not imagine not having the choice over my own body regardless of my age. I will keep your story in mind as I deal with my daughter in her upcoming teen years in the many situations that she must handle and how I choose to respond to them. I hope your story is a lesson for the many parents and teens on NV today. Thank you!
bibol I second what Danielle Oziah said above, you have been reported.
I think Nate should have confined his pork packing to the plant where he works.
That is disgusting!
AMEN.
They should have made better use of birth control. There is nothing wrong with teens having sex, if they are careful.
Teens will always have sex, its natural and normal. They just need to be taught how to be safe.
It's unfortunate that they didn't know about the morning after pill....it doesn't cause an abortion, which they're against, but it could have prevented this pregnancy.....and since she's 17 she should have been able to get it from the pharmacy.....
Hopefully, they'll make it work, perhaps his mother could help take care of the little to ensure she can graduate.....
have you heard of pregnancies that happen while on birth control medication and condoms that break during intercourse! There is a lot wrong with teens having sex, they are only kids that is why they are not careful, they rely on luck.
This is absurd. The idiot who thinks teens should be having sex is part of the moral decline of our society. Teen's don't have the ability to make smart long term decisions for themselves. They need two parents (man and woman) to teach them the right way to live in a moral society.
I fear we are bearing witness to the downfall of western civilization.
Nate and his girlfriend were on birth control. Read the labels on the the products; they are not 100% failure-proof.
Birth control is definitely not 100% I have 2 children and both were surprises to my husband and I as I was on birth control at the time and with the 2nd one we use birth control and a condom because we were worried after the first one. The only thing that will prevent pregnancy is abstinence!
Well, when used properly, birth control is pretty darn effective. My wife used it from the time we were both 21 until we decided to have kids at 30. No problems. None. And as soon as she went off, 9 months later we had our first son. She went back on and again no problems until 2 years later when we wanted our second child. As soon as she went off, 11 months later (took a little longer this time to hit the jackpot), our second son was born. So yeah, 11 years of birth control and the only time pregnancy occurred was when we wanted it to. You're right. It's not 100%, but it's awfully close...
I bought a box of condoms for my son at Walgreens and it was $20. Teens are not flush with that kind of money. Buying condoms for your kids gives them a message to be responsible. I have told him under no circumstance have sex with a girl under 18 as sex with a 16 or younger can be crime if the girl or family presses charges. Your son could get pegged as a sex offender the rest of his life for having sex with a girl that is underage. Kids and parents need to have lots of talks about sex and kids need lots of support, advice and honesty. The most self-righteous parents are the ones who had sex as teenagers! Stop being hypocritical and make sure your son and daughter doesn't end up as a teen statistic!
I agree jan...
My son is now a senior in college, going to law school in the fall.....when he is home and we shop for toiletries..I always put the condoms in the cart. He was embarrassed at first, and thought it was pretty funny that his mom was buying him condoms, but I want to make sure he has what he needs. I have done this with him since he was 17.
My daughter is older and in medical school now. Having an open relationship with her was very important to me, when she had a steady boyfriend at 17 , we talked and I took her to the doctor for birth control.
I have always instilled in my children that no matter what, they can always come to me. I will always be there..rather than scream at them and tell them "NO...do not have sex" we talked about it, and they were told be smart, but whatever happens...I will always be there for them.
Parents would be a lot smarter if they talked with their children instead of at them. You can scream all you want for abstinence..but chances are it is not going to happen. In today's times....the only thing that will really work is having open , honest relationships with your children..and talk talk talk. It worked for us.
When I was in high school, condoms slipped off, frequently. Regardless of the boy's size. They're effective when used properly - I doubt most teens use them properly. I think condoms are a good back up or "just in case"
But it cannot be the primary means of "safe sex".
No sex, is probably best, at least until maybe you have a full time job or can handle the consequences of your actions. Some teens will always be sexually active but more effort should be made to reduce the overall number of teens who are. Teen pregnancies will then reduce as a result. And as an added ' bonus', STD rates will decline.
Well, I agree with you, Dame, that the safest sex is NO SEX. Although I think it's absurd for folks to wait until they are married since folks are getting married later and later in life nowadays. They should, like you said, wait until they can better handle the consequences of their actions. It's what I'll advocate to my kids. I can only hope and pray that they listen to me. And I actually won't be a hypocrite either. My wife and I started dating at 18. Had sex at 21 (which was the first time ever for the both of us), married at 25, first kid at 30. Second kid at 33. However, I will make my boys well aware of all available options if they would so choose to not follow my advice. I want them to be open and honest with me. I may disapprove but I won't be able to stop them. At the very least then, I need to make sure they approach it as smart and responsibly as humanly possible.
Go warhammer! I don't expect my kids to wait until marriage, I do expect them to wait until they can at least do their own laundry! LOL ;)
I have to agree with those who have suggested adoption is the best idea for this young couple. I realize they love their baby and believe they can make things work but the reality is they have no idea of how hard that is going to be. I was adopted after being born to a teenage mother and although my life hasn't been perfect I thank her everyday for not dragging me through a lifetime of struggle and poverty and giving me a chance with a two-parent family. Sometimes love is just not enough and I hope this couple will realize it and do the best for their baby. If they really love her, that is what they will do.
boohoo This is what happens when you have unprotected sex. Unfortunately it's the stupid that keep procreating during this economic turmoil and somewhere down the line I'm going to have to pay for it via Uncle Sam.
Obviously, education was of no interest to you because you spent more time screwing instead of studying. You would have never made it through college anyway, so you saved yourself a good amount of dough to in turn shove it down a screaming kid's throat.
Keep in mind that some people are religious and consider contraception to be "the devil". Every sperm is sacred....
They said the BC failed so I am not sure where either of your comments are coming from. That's where our first and second come from...we were not unprotected, the BC just failed and voila! kids...
Probably failed because they weren't using it properly. That is the leading cause of birth control "failure". If they use the pill they take it sporadically... or every other day. Or forget... because they are kids and don't understand consequences because no one teaches them. I agree with Stella, ignorance isn't an excuse... its a plague upon our society. Religion however is an excuse that doesn't excuse anyone. They want a deity to take responsibility for their actions so they don't have to. What people don't realize is that their God is indeed everywhere. He is physics, math, and science. He is everything that made us, molds us, and drives us, but he is not a person but the entire universe together. It is about understanding, and learning, growing and adapting... evolving. But ultimately we are responsible for our actions and the way we choose to manipulate the universe around us and utilize that which was given us. Our intentions shape our reality for us.
But yeah, Having stupid children from stupid people is the exact reciple for stupidity. 1 * 1 = 1. Or worse... 0 * 0 = 0.
Obivously education isn't a big deal to you either Stella because you didn't even accurately read the article. Also amazing how people add facts to the story to justify their viewpoint.
Yes, they made a mistake and they are stepping up to their responsibility. The point of the story was to elicit sympathy but for informational purposes. By them telling their story, maybe it will make another teen think. Should they hide and shut up because of their situation? That's not going to help anyone. Do I feel sorry for them? No, they made their choices and they will need to live with it. But that doesn't mean they should be crucified for their mistakes.
I am also glad we have choices in this country. Not one of the three choices are great choices in a situation like this but at least there are three to choose from and that choice should be made by the individual. To LifeLongPackerFanand Stockholder, I think it's a disgusting ignorance of human rights to think that you can make such a decision on behalf of your child just because they are under 18 yrs of age.
Excellent point about "failure," JGL. Like I said in a previous post, my wife used BC for 11 years and the only pregnancies that occurred were ones that we wanted.
I knew three girls who became pregnant in their late teens. One gave the baby up for adoption, one an abortion and the third kept hers. They've all went on to have good lives, but the one who kept hers struggled in the early years. I also taught high school a few years and saw many of my female students get pregnant, some finished school and earned their diplomas, some dropped out. None gave their babies up for adoption and none had abortions. These girls probably wouldn't ever have gone to college anyway, content to just get married and stay in their small little rural town the rest of their lives. I do wish though that more girls would consider adoption, I know that can't be an easy choice after carrying a child for nine months, but in the end it will make her life and her baby's life easier in the long run.
"CHOICE" that is the word here.....at least in this country...so far..we all still have a CHOICE. I know .....I had an abortion 30 years ago. I have never looked back, and have no regrets. I was inl college. It was the right choice for me....but at least I had a CHOICE. Hopefully...we will always have a CHOICE.
Nobody should ever be made to feel guilt for the choice they choose.
Debbie too bad your choice took away any choice your child would have had!
nell..
Too bad you don't know how to mind your business and spew your garbage.... ...You do what's good for you and stop judging others. You will never make me feel bad. I did it for me.... " my CHOICE"
Debbie - an unplanned pregnancy is always a hard position to be in because you didn't plan on being there. Abortion is a very sensitive subject and people have a hard time talking about it. If you ever find yourself in a place where you do want to work through that desicion you made please know that there are crisis pregnancy centers, specifically Care Net, with people waiting to hear you, love you, and help you.
Cannot say I feel sorry for this pair of soon to be parents, or any teenager that gets pregnant. Full disclosure here: I was overly sexually active as a teenager. Never once did I have unprotected sex. I understand that condoms are not 100% effective, I am not naive. Was I lucky? Maybe, but I certainly increased my odds of not having a life changing event by wearing a condom. Back then, it was generally my responsibility anyhow, as birth control, from the girl's perspective was a huge taboo. Parents did not want to believe that the little angel asleep in her bedroom was not saving it until marriage.
As far as continuing education about safe sex, it seems like the govt is throwing good money after bad. How many PSA's have we seen over the years talking about safe sex? Millions and millions of dollars are spent to curb this issue, but it really doesn't seem to be working all that well. Parents need to be honest with themselves and talk to their children. Teen sex will happen, that is a certainty. Parents need to assist the kids is being safe and responsible.
As far as what to do with a pregnancy if and when it happens, all families need to decide that amongst themselves. There are 3 very difficult choices, none can be entered into lightly.
And it is not even all about pregnancy, think about the diseases and that should scare you even more.
Good for you, Eric! I think the best sex ed would be for some young man (like Nate, perhaps) to speak to high school boys about knocking some girl up, getting a subpoena from the State for a paternity test, then getting his wages garnished for a child he didn't even know about, all because he didn't wear a condom. Girls lie too, sadly (and I'm a lady, so I know what I'm talking about), they might tell you they're on the pill when they're not, it happens. Guys need to remember they have no say in abortion. You can't force a girl to abort a kid you don't want, so take care of yourself & use a condom.
that's because the millions of dallars that are being spent are being spent to tell kids not to have sex period...too many schools don't actually give you the details until teens today have ALREADY engaged in some sort of sexual behavoir and then they don't want to talk about it, or their parents are afraid if they talk about sex with them, that they'll go out and do it! If my parents had sat down with me and said, "Look. We had sex and Voila! you and your brother happened." And laid out all the facts, all the consequences, that having kids affcted EVERY decision they made about their jobs, where to live, what car to buy, etc everything that having a kid made different about their lives, there would be a lot of detail there, so much more than teens usually bring to mind when they consider getting sexually active. I think if parents explained it all, laid it out on table, open discussion where kids could ask questions about everything, teens would much more seriously consider doing something that "all the other kids are doing."
These child parents aren't held accountable or fiscally responsible for their actions. So what do the bleeding heart liberal's do? They reward these mother's with welfare, food stamps and WIC. It makes complete sense to me.(not) The parents and grandparents should be held accountable, not the taxpayers! (Both, mother and father should be held financially accountable.)
If you can't feed them, don't breed them!
Yeah, that's a really helpful argument AFTER the child is already born. You can't feed a baby with judgmental self-righteousness.
JohnYaya, you are 100% correct.
Why do people label others with names like "bleeding heart liberal".
C'mon now. I am a liberal but I sure as heck don't agree that my hard earned tax dollars are going to support them so they can sit back and have more babies for more money and then be neglectful in raising them with any decent morals or values and then turn them loose on society to repeat the same process.
Don't put people in boxes and stop stereotyping due to your own obvious lack of education and your personal biases.
Where are these teen children's parents? I don't want to pay for their poor choices and poor parenting. I would like to see how this turn out a few years from now but I think we have all heard this sad story before. And more needs to be done to put these folks to work if they receive public funded health care, housing assistance, food stamps, and child welfare services.
Yes, people need to work. However, I find these comments ignorant. If you've never been in the situation I feel you have no right to pass judgement. I was 19 when I had my daughter and I only fit one statistic. I'm no longer with her father. We were together exclusively 5 years bf we ever had sex. Yes, I was dumb and not careful bc of my upbringing. I figured we loved eachother, we'd always be together and he'd care for me if anything happened. We were together until she was 4. So a total of 9 years. We didn't fall out of love. It was pressure from my parents judging him and tearing him down from our teenage "surprise."
I used food stamps for about two years, while working and attending college. I have two kids (11 and 6) I raise on my own. I send them to a good private school. I am a college graduate from a very good private college in my area. I work 40 hrs a week and make more than enough money to fill our needs. There are things we do without and my children have no idea. They have no problem keeping up with their peers. Both kids bring home great grades and rank in the top 95th percentile on national tests.
Perhaps, it's not so much being a teenage parent. Maybe they had poor backgrounds to begin with.
Ah, Liz, some people don't want to be bothered with the difficult nuances regarding public assistance, which thankfully I have never had to use. They find it much easier to simply paint everyone with a very broad brush and force them into simple, easy-to-understand, black-and-white positions. You're either a hard working tax payer or a leech on society. It may strain them to think that many folks fall into the hazy gray area somewhere in between those two positions. And who can blame them? It's just so easy to do. Why complicate matters? What I find so astounding is that many (but not all) of this black-n-whiters will on one hand scream that abortion needs to be outlawed because they need to save the children, but yet once the child is born want to put an end to welfare and food stamps which may be the only way that kid gets the basic necessities it needs. I don't understand that mentality: "I need to make sure the kid gets into the world and takes its first breath before I tell it to kiss my ass and get a job!" Baffling. If individuals are so gung-ho to protect the kid while it's in the womb, they'd better be willing to pony up and help out after it's out.
Or they could give it up for adoption and then they wouldn't need public assistance.
Uh, yeah, because giving up something you created and gave birth to is just so damn easy to do...
Good grief. Again with the easy black and white situations. In Liz's case, she only needed public assistance for 2 years until she got back on her feet. What's the better moral solution here? Provide a public support net at, God forbid, your expense to help folks who need it to manage through a rough time, ultimately keeping a child with it's biological parent or saying tough luck, give the kid up for adoption so it's not a financial burden and permanently split up a family?!
Again, I reiterate: baffling...
I would like to pat Nate on the back for standing up to his responsibilities, and putting his own ambitions on the back burner. I was married at 18 (just after high school), had my first daughter at 19, and my husband and I both worked day in and day out to provide for our four children, with no foodstamps or WIC. If you are both committed to your life and goals together, it is possible to make it! We gave our kids such a nice life, now they don't want to leave home as adults!
See. I admire your story. You did the right thing and made it work. Didn't blame anyone, just humped up and took care of things. It can be done without scrapping the kid and starting over.
I'm going to guess that your experiences happened back in the days when one COULD make a decent living without higher education, and blue-collar jobs offered health insurance? Keep in mind that those days are gone.
armygrl - Great story. My wife and I were similiar to y'all but younger. We were 16 when our daughter was born, married at 17, and now we have 3 kids, one of whom is still in college and the other 2 are in their 20s and in good jobs. We've been married 25 years and never took a dime in welfare, we took food stamps one month about 23 years ago and were do embarrassed we never took any more. All we've done is work, be together, and raise good kids. It can be done.
Tracey - We got married in 1985 so it wasn't exactly the good old days. We worked minimum wage, finished school at night, and my wife went to college at night and online. She has a Master's now but we worked HARD to get where we are. I don't recommend it but it's not impossible.
No, they aren't. I only went to college for 2 years and now make 6 figures and have 100% coverage from my employer (I pay nothing out of pocket for medical). Degrees are not mandatory in my field... I'm not in any way advocating skipping college, just want to point out that you shouldn't be so absolute in your statement. There are plenty of people in my field that never went to college
And what, exactly, is it that you do? Heck, even though I have a 4 year degree and post graduate schooling and am a research scientist in the pharmceutical field, I don't make 6 figures nor have 100% coverage. I'll go back to school for another 2 years if it means an upgrade in my pay and benefits! I'm am absolutely serious here. What did you study and what line of work are you in?
I had 100% coverage as an admin assistant to an oil exec. No HS diploma needed. Before I got my degree I was making 37,500 in the late 90's. The 100% coverage was for me only, it was 56.10 per month to add my daughter. They DO exist!
My husband would be 100% covered if he didn't have me and the kids on his policy. He's a DBA.
Dame,
Yes, but they are getting more scarce as time goes on.
Wow. This article is just begging to bring up abortion. It's sickening. Poor ole Nate and Samantha. If this epidemic of teen pregnancy hadn't randomly picked them then they would have better lives. There has to be some way to remedy this. Hey! Wait! Just kill the kid so it won't have a horrible life!--It's absurd and it's murder. They need to give this baby up for adoption, to a home that will love and care for it and won't blame it for ruining their college football dreams or be the reason mom dropped out of high school. This whole series of stories on Elkhart hasn't really endeared the area to me. MSNBC's choice of subject to do stories on from the illegal who was losing his house to this story show just how backward and crazy this country and news media have become.
It's also a legal medical procedure.
"They need to give this baby up for adoption..."
Says the person who doesn't have to carry the pregnancy to term. Are there any other people in the world whom you would like to inform how to live their lives and what they can do with their bodies?
TraceyS so you can choose to end someones life just because you will be fat for what 4-5 months? You are telling your child (another person) they can't live for just vanity and selfishness. You can give children up for adoption. They get to live their life with someone who appreciates the gift of parenthood and you can go on with your life perhaps with a few streach marks but a child needn't bother you for the rest of your life. You made the mistake take responsibility for it like this couple is.
rev, yes, it highlights Elkhart, yes, but it happens EVERYWHERE, all the time, teens get pregnant and think they can handle it. Sorry you don't feel endeared to your fellow american.
JK:
What an absolutely ignorant and preposterous statement for you to believe that weight gain is the only health risk due to a pregnancy.
Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and
are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
Occasional complications and side effects:
Less common (but serious) complications:
More permanent side effects:
Man LizLiz. That's a long list. Looks like one of those commercials for Viagra or something. Pregnancy has been happening for as long as humans have been around. Everyone knows the risks. The risks involved in abortion as the same or more. Its not the risks, it's the inconvenience. In our throw away society people have talked themselves into believing that other humans are disposable. They are NOT and never will be. Abortion is murder. It kills another human being, and many times for selfish reasons. This argument that since I am a man I can't say anything about it is bogus. I can't carry a child to term but I can adopt one. I would gladly adopt one or two or more if it meant saving them from being aborted. Thats the thing though, once babies are here they are all cute and cuddly and many times mothers who once wished their baby dead or gave it up for adoption change their minds. We live in a messed up backwards world where killing a litter of puppies will get you jail time but killing your kids is legal. We glorify those who make the "tough choice" of killing their baby and make it sound like those who decide to let their child live and make it work are in for a life of regret. I am done listening to the drivel that pro choice people spit out. Abortion is murder, plain and simple and those who condone it and promote it have a big surprise coming on judgement day if they do not repent of this holocaust.
I think most people on the pro-choice side, myself includes, would be more than happy if you would leave us alone and let God judge us. I'll take my chances with an all-knowing, compassionate being that understands everything I do before I'll leave my fate up to a brainwashed "oh so holier than thou" pawn of organized religion. If you think it is murder, and we will pay for it with eternal pain and torment (you'd like that wouldn't you, and you call us sick =P) then let us pay our due when it comes time. In the end either you'll be right and be oh so happy that the infidels got their due, or I'll be right and you won't hear from me cause I don't care enough to feel like you should be punished for your beliefs. Good grief... the high ground sure is spiteful and violent... good thing I chose the lower road.
Have you seen the side effects for birth control?
Revewagon said:
Care to list those risks that are the same or more?
Not according to science, the laws of the US, or myself.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Killing any kid whether it's is yours or not is illegal, and you will get jail time. You may want to take a few biology classes. A zygote is not a kid.
I'm sorry to hear that. I am still willing to have a calm rational discussion with anti-choice people.
Playing god now are we?
Dame Quixote stated:
Yes. Less frequent and painful menstrations, clearer skin, and zero unplanned pregnancies since I started the pill.
Thanks for your concern! ;)
LizLiz
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and
are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
Occasional complications and side effects:
Less common (but serious) complications:
More permanent side effects:
Wow Liz Liz I guess I don't know a thing about it Pregnancy is the cause of everything from cavities and osteoporosis to Spousal abuse. Most of the stuff you get simply from aging. And with what 5 billion + people on this earth its a miracle any woman can walk never mind making it to the ripe old age of 30. If the pregnancy doesn't kill you your teen will!! Amazing we are so prolific!!
Just like your case was good with the pill, my case with pregnancy had positive side effects. Clearer skin, bigger boobs, increased sex drive, NO menstrual cycle.
I don't advocate giving all or even most teen girls hormonal birth control because someone on the internet had a good experience. I don't advocate teen girls get pregnant. I DO advocate as many teen girls as possible try to abstain until they are ready to accept responsibility for all outcomes of becoming sexually active including painful and possibly deadly STD's. If a teen decides she wants hormonal BC, fine. I am certainly not going to push for it though.
I don't recall saying I was against BC for teens. Surely you could quote me if I was.
Exactly my point JK. Big difference difference than your claim of simple weight gain, now isn't it?
Not sure what your rant is about. You asked if I had seen the side effects of birth control and I listed three of mine.
BTW back on topic with this article of teen pregnancy:
as women in their twenties; those under age 15 are five times as likely to die.
LizLiz, don't waste your time trying to explain pregnancy risks to men. They have absolutely no idea what we go through and it does seem to be them that usually scream about murder, blah blah blah. This is a woman's burden to bear and that's the way it is, just the way nature set things up. The easiest thing in the world to do is to run one's mouth about things that don't really affect you. Even women that don't have kids don't know what they're talking about and yes, I have two of them (preeclampsia with both of them, if you don't know what that is look it up-it's still the leading cause of maternal death worldwide). Even after that I personally would not have an abortion if I got pregant again, but that's not my choice to make for anyone else. People always have two sets of standards, one for them and one for everyone else. There is a very outspoken abortion opponent in South Dakota, a woman, that actually had an abortion when she was younger. She made that choice and now that she "knows better" she feels she should make that choice for everyone else. Typical hypocrite. Until you can and have carried children you opinion about what mothers should do is worthless.
Unfortunately, this scenario will play out in a sad but predictable fashion: they will split up in the next few years, she will struggle to raise her kid, he may or may not be around but will ultimately go on with his life. Hers may or may not amount to anything but stastically it won't and statistically her kid will grow up and continue the cycle. I sincerely hope they are the exception but everyone thinks they will be. I taught high school in an inner city and all too often I saw teen pregnancies end up with the father going on with his life and the mother's life ruined. Ideally, adoption is great but for whatever reason it doesn't always work out. Many kids don't get adopted and many kids born so teen mothers have substance abuse problems. I wonder how many people running their mouths about adoption would take a crack baby or a fetal alcohol baby; I taught these kids and I know what their life is like. Anyway, I appreciate some of the success stories I've read on this site, it's nice to know things can work out, even if they don't always. Good luck to everyone.
Thanks for your propaganda site. According to the CDC, every age group besides 20's is at higher risk of dying during childbirth. The riskiest being the very old and very young. What exactly is your point?
I wasn't ranting. Dictionary dot com could give you a clear definition of rant.
I pointed out that one could promote the positive side of everything. Doesn't mean it's a one-sized fits all solution for everyone.
Birth control has serious side effects to consider. I don't advocate taking any medication just for the sake of prevention. It's always an important decision to consider before making the decision.
Liz
I had a very difficult pregnancy as well at the age of 19, and I absolutely agree, although I made the CHOICE to carry my daughter to full term, I would never make that same CHOICE for another human being. I was lucky that I had a very supportive village of family and friends. I would never want to go through another pregnancy and was very careful when taking the pill after the birth of my daughter. My OB provided me with information on an IUD called Copper T which I absolutely love.
Best of luck to you as well Liz and friend request sent!
does dame quixote ever shut up?
Says the person who felt the need to comment on the fact that I commented on an online forum. Classy.
The argument that men can't experience pregnancy or birth and therefore don't have any idea about what happens during a pregnancy or that they have no say as to whether abortion is right or wrong is tired and pretty idiotic. Let me tell you that say I don't know anything about this topic something. Did you set with me in the operating room during my wife's emergency c section at 30 weeks, her blood dripping on the floor and wait to hear whether or not my son's lungs would work and he would cry when he was delivered? Then follow him into the NICU to see if he was even going to live? Then go back and see if my wife was going to live? Then have to go back to the family and tell them I didn't really know if either of them was going to be OK? I don't think so. You would have said that my wife would have been within her "right to a choice" to have his brains sucked out because him being inside her was killing her. Talk about sick. THAT is sick. I have seen dozens of babies in the NICU that were delivered in the second and early third trimester and guess what? They are humans! If they are humans then, they are humans when they are conceived. END OF STORY!
As far as me judging and playing God. God is God and he will judge you. I am not calling out for people to be judged. I am calling out for people to REPENT of this evil that is abortion just as I repent of the evil that I do every day. It is no different. It is sin and there will be judgement for sin. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, and it doesn't matter whether you or science or the Supreme Court think abortion is fine. Life is not ours to take. Period.
You are obviously too close to the issue to make a rational, objective statement regarding abortion. You have been emotionally compromised. You can't rely on people who have been emotionally scarred by events in their life to make rational choices for other people. Others will make choices themselves, and they will live with them, and so will you. If you make abortion illegal people wiill still do it just like they used to. They will do it with clothes hangers and unlicensed doctors and with people whom they cannot trust to keep them safe.
You say you aren't calling out for people to be judged, or judging people... but yet you literally just followed it up that you are calling for people to REPENT THEIR EVIL! You are judging someone evil for what they do. How do you know God considers them evil? Did he come over Saturday night and have a little chat about abortion and the sinners of the world? If you were to ask me I would say it blasphemy to assume the will of God period. How can you assume something so far above you? How can you even HOPE to understand that which is so beyond your comprehension... so far beyond the scope of time, space, and our physical world as to be OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT, AND ALL POWERFUL? That is so arrogant and prideful that I hardly even know where to start. Our puny brain wouldn't be able to begin to comprehend what he thinks or feels, and it makes me sick that people out there really believe that anyone knows the first thing about something that vast. People can't even comprehend simple physics and scientific concepts and yet they think they are qualified to speak for the entire universe. Hell that offends my sensibilities and I'm not even a member of organized religion. I guess its easier to speak for God when you have a lot of people saying he says the same thing. Honestly I don't care if every single human on the world said the same thing... it wouldn't convince me any more that what they are saying is true. Humans don't speak for God. I don't care how many of them get together to try. It wasn't so long ago Christians fled Europe to escape persecution for their beliefs. Sure hasn't taken them long to decide they want to revisit the subject of persecution now that they have the power. Hypocrisy knows no bounds obviously. I wonder if God is proud that belief in him has spawned such blatant bigotry.
You should take a look and say what if pro-choicers had the right to choose for YOU? Abort YOUR baby because they feel it is dangerous to the mother and she deserves the right to live? Is this still acceptable? No? why the hell not you are asking the same thing the other way...to make choices for other people because you feel like what you are saying is right. I feel like what I'm saying is right too! Of course I don't have a God backing me on it... yet... but I'm sure I could come up with one if I try really hard.
Not all choices are easy. You and yours chose to stick it out and hope for the best. If you had lost both of them would you still feel the same way? Would she have wanted it that way? Our lives aren't perfect... we don't get to see the future and sometimes the consequences of our actions aren't immediately clear. The best we can do is make the choices we see in front of us and deal with the consequences we didn't expect along with the ones we did. We all have to live and die by those choices... and no matter how hard you try you can't mold other's intentions to fit your design. You can force them to do what you want if you have the power... but is that the world you want? Is that the world your God would want? Do you think he would be happy as long as everyone was forced to do exactly what he wanted regardless of what THEY wanted? I think the evidence of our very existence speaks to the contrary. We have free will, and so we are meant to use it. The consequences of our actions are our reward... and no one can hide from them, because they are what they are. If you really believe in a divine power, you will accept that his judgement will be sufficient, both in life and in death.
And that is why religious people and men are not allowed to have an opinion on or say in abortion.
Try again. Sitting in the delivery room with your wife doesn't get you sympathy or make you an automatic expert about the female body and female reproductive rights.
Do you support the death penalty?
Someone needs to explain to Nate that perhaps 8-9% of his monthly disposable income should NOT be used on a cell phone and help him find a cheaper plan or cell phone service.
It is interesting to read the different viewpoints that people have. I agree that adoption is the best answer in these situations. It is not fair to the unborn child to give it a death sentence because the mother is unwilling to carry the child to term. There is an old true saying “You pay to play”.
Abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancies. Trust me you do not get pregnant by drinking the water. If the schools would stop passing out condoms and telling our children that sex is ok as long as you use protection then the rate will drop. We all know birth control is not 100% effective all the time, however, abstinence is.
Abstinence is also the only way to prevent STDs. Condoms are not 100% foolproof. We should be teaching our children the hardships of an unwanted pregnancy, not glorifying it.
I 100% agree vincent!
Number 13 should read the article Abstinence has raised the number of pregnancy's. So that doesn't seem to be the answer. Good education works better.
The people that think there shouldn't be welfare for the mother's seem to forget there is a child involved also.
Yeah, it's obvious teens are not going to have sex because you say so. Very short-sighted and it worked very well for Sarah Palin.
"Abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancies."
Studies have proved this doesn't work. Wishing the problem away into a fantasy world you've created doesn't work. Sorry.
Buffy711
Number 13 should read the article Abstinence has raised the number of pregnancy's. So that doesn't seem to be the answer. Good education
If you read the article the couple says they used protection and it failed. Abstinence only Programs didn't stop them from using or finding out about it. Trust in birth control seems to have been the cause.
TraceyS
"Abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancies."
Studies have proved this doesn't work. Wishing the problem away into a fantasy world you've created doesn't work. Sorry.
You won't get pregnant if you abstain. Can you refute that? Trust in birth control is what got these kids in trouble.
Pregnancy doesn't just happen to teens. Are you suggesting anyone who doesn't want to have kids should abstain from sex their entire lives? We didn't evolve in our society. If we had our reproduction systems probably wouldn't be worth crap and it would be hard to get pregnant. We evolved in the harsh environment of pre-civilized EARTH. Where more babies = more chance to live. Now that is not the case, and some people don't want children EVER. I am one of those people. I don't think it is my duty to never have sex with my wife just because we don't want to procreate. No contraception is 100% effective, and until there is one you cannot blame people for wanting to get abortions if they fall in the 0.01% that managed to get pregnant even while responsibly following contraception guidelines. Since we cannot be accurate judges of whether or not someone followed these guidelines to the letter we have to leave it to them to decide if they A) want a baby or B) don't want a baby. How they get rid of it is their decision. It isn't like you said "hey lets have a baby" then after you got pregnant were like "eh.. nevermind... kill it" You chose not to have one in the first place, and you STILL choose not to have one. You didn't give anyone a death sentence, you chose not to allow your genetic material to gestate into a living human. I feel I reserve the right to do what I want with my genes and the decision was already made beforehand. Why would I feel guilty that I stood by that decision? The "child" is obviously not going to care any more than you would have cared had you never been born. Yeah you care now, but trillions of unborn babies throughout our entire history argue the other side quite well with their silence. There is no use wondering about "what ifs" when we have so many real issues to deal with. Reality happens. Hypotheticals don't. Worry about yourself and if you are religious and feeling especially spiteful then just rejoice in the fact that all of us "baby killers" will go to hell, and you can laugh down on us from your cloud and get over it.
I'm in my mid 20's and faced a similar situation when I was a teenager. I can say from my own experience that teenagers are going to have sex. It happens. My parents and teachers and every other adult in earshot were telling me not to and I did anyway, as did almost everyone I knew. What good does abstinence only education do when teens are going to have sex regardless? I agree with the viewpoint that this line of thinking has caused the increase in pregnancies, and the only reasonable recourse is to refocus on teaching proper use of birth control. Teens are rebellious and think they know everything and most of the time there is nothing adults can say or do to convince them otherwise. We make mistakes and learn from them.
Locke290- it is because people would choose ignorance over knowledge. They would rather pretend that their kids aren't having sex than face reality. It's a sad case of denial.. but it is nothing new. People never want to accept bad things in life.. and so we continue to make policy and programs to fit ideals that never existed. It's lunacy really... but we actually treat problems as if they are happening on our terms, not as they are actually happening. We believe we can tell kids not to have sex and what... they will listen? Why would they listen any more than you do when people tell you what to do with your life? But If they know what the consequences will be for their actions, they can be more prepared to prevent them. Abstinance only teaching is straight ignorant denial. You might as well claim men don't have penises and teach people that for all the good you are doing. Yeah you might scare a few of the weak willed ones into being afraid of sex... which causes more problems in the long run for those poor people... but you aren't going to tell the average human they can't use their body to have fun.
It makes me laugh to even think about. I knew the consequences growing up, and I made damn sure there would be no babies in my future... and I knew better than to trust a woman with that decision. I took responsibility... and here I am. Childless as planned. Isn't it grand how that works? I guess because my parents told me that sex made babies when I was young... and that if I didn't want a baby I needed to make sure none of that stuff... they called it "sperm" gets into that thing they called a "vagina". They also informed me that the so-called "sperm" came out of my penis once you put it into the "vagina". Crazy concepts I know... and so difficult to grasp! I probably just educated any kid who read this more than most people do their own kids. hah
Tracy S.
I'm pretty sure that abstinence works. I think it might be that abstinence EDUCATION doesn't.
Abstinence education at least gives students the truth about the consequences of sex. Comprehensive education simply pushes condoms and contraceptives at them and says "you are going to have sex anyway so here." Why can't we give children all the facts and let them decide? You can get pregnant and get a infection that can lead to a permanent disease. Those are the facts, you choose if you want to have sex or not?
If an education only pushes condoms and contraceptives then it cannot be labeled as "comprehensive". Abstinence programs are designed to get teenagers to agree not to have sex at all, but leaving out information about disease prevention and birth control aside from to say "you can't get pregnant if you don't have sex". How is that giving them all the facts? That is giving them only the facts they need to make your decision or fail at life. Gee conceited much? How about I give someone the means in which to live as long as they live exactly how I want them to? If they don't... they die. Sure they had a choice to live like me, but they chose not to. Now they die.
That is the kind of choice abstinence only education gives teenagers. The choice to live by your rules, or risk losing their life. If you really want to give teenagers a choice, then you give them the information about disease, and pregnancy, give abstinence an honorable mention as the only way they can guarantee results, and then tell them other methods to prevent pregnancy and disease... again emphasizing the chance that even following all these preventative measures you can STILL GET A DISEASE OR PREGNANT. If they still choose to have sex you've done all you can do. They get pregnant or diseased... their life is forfeit... roll credits. Otherwise they will make an informed decision and follow the choice to happiness... whether that happiness comes from a threesome with two of their promiscuous teenage girlfriends or having virgin sex with the love of your life at the ripe old age of 25.
The point is not giving them all the information is not giving them a choice at all. If you think that withholding information because they might make use of it is really giving them a choice then... well ... lol? The only choice you are giving them is to disobey you. One that if I know teenagers.... some will make just to spite you.
And who the heck would advocate sex education without giving consequences of sex? That is exactly what birth control and condoms are about.. avoiding consequences. If one side of this issue is keeping the effects of sex a secret they have already lost. That is a silly notion though.
I don't see the debate. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not tell them they have the option of abstaining... but if they don't there are condoms and birth control? Again if you are just keeping condoms and birth control a secret out of some notion that you are taking the choice out of their hands... well that is dumb and no wonder it doesn't work lol.
I don't know where some of you got your "comprehensive sex education", but when I went through sex ed, we learned about everything from abstinence to contraceptives to STD's and other complications. It did a darn good job at giving us all the facts without making all the students terrified of sex for the rest of their lives.
I just read an article yesterday on teen pregnency, (Boys). And they said only 40% +- 5 thought of sex. at an age of 13-18. Now I read this. I think they need to open there eyes to the fact that boys from 13-99 think of sex all the time.
O.K. but you don't have sex all the time do you? You exert self control. Perhaps we should teach kids that.
stupid is as stupid does. Sad story.
I was engaged at 19, had my first child at 20, second a year later. I was in college. I worked hard to finish school while raising my children with my husband. He does not have a college degree! We did not have much for a VERY long time, and we will never catch up to our peers financially, but my children are some of the most balanced, kindest kids. Now almost 19 years later we are STILL married (contrary to what all the studies SAY should have happened) have 4 children- our first in college this year and second next.
If you have a child while you are in high school and can get your diploma AND get accepted into college you will GET financial aid. The boy in this story qualifies for grants and loans and even childcare to go to school. Someone should tell him that! Life will be full of work for them, however all I can say that I missed was doing what my peers were doing in college-- going to the bar with friends and "sleeping around" with different partners. I am glad I missed that! I came from a family of means but my husband and I did it ON OUR OWN. If you WANT to be a good parent when you are young you can. Even if the pregnancy was unplanned. The problem comes when kids are having sex for the wrong reasons to begin with. Teaching abstinence until marriage is still important. Teaching kids that every act of intercourse can create a child is the MOST important. I met a girl at the grocery store (checker) who was pregnant and she said it "wasn't really her fault because she was on birth control." That is the problem with teaching kids about birth control. Where is the accountability if it fails??? Teach them that EVERY act of intercourse can create a child and that they are responsible for that life if they create it. That is what our schools should be teaching. That and the value of waiting until they can be sexual until they can support the child they might create. But to say young people can't do it right and recover after they have a child early is a disservice. Where are the parents of these teens? What did they tell them about sexuality and conception? Abortion is not the answer. Adoption is only the answer if a pregnant teen truly does not want to raise her child. Let's support these young people by telling them that they SHOULD go on to higher education. Let's stop teenage pregnancy by teaching MORALS and VALUES in our society. What do we expect from them if we see what they watch on TV? If we never take them to any church at all?
It's not just teaching them morals and values, but ALSO what to do INSTEAD of having sex, like going on group dates, doing volunteer work and having goals to work towards. To teach them to think about having sex/babies AFTER the education is completed and the financial goals are in place.
hahaha! yeah... and I'll tell terrorists what to do INSTEAD of suicide bombing. We'll see who stops doing it first. I'm betting on the terrorists.
Logical, but not practical. Teenagers aren't exactly known for their reasoning skills. You can teach them all the "morals and values" you want, but when it comes down to the deed and the moment, morals aren't going to stop them, because morals are flexible. They can be rationalized, modified, and marginalized. But consequences are consequences. If they know something will happen when they have sex, then no amount of rationalization will help them. They know they need something to keep a girl from getting pregnant or their life will be severely hampered or destroyed. That they can understand. They may forget what is so important about what momma thinks of them when a naked girl is standing in front of them, but they aren't going to forget what happens if that same woman gets knocked up. They may still choose to ignore it... but that's why people with lower IQ's have so many more children... cause they are stupid =P
Wow JGL... I certainly don't ever want to be associated with you. It sounds like you're saying if murder benefited you, you wouldn't hesitate to do it because "morals are flexible."
If a belief is truly a "moral" it isn't that flexible. If your morals tell you that it's not OK to have sex, then you won't have sex. Bending that moral would be engaging in "heavy petting" or maybe even going as far as oral sex. But having actual intercourse is totally breaking it.
Here's the one thing no one has mentioned on here so far. Why do most teenage girls have sex? Is it because their partners are just so skilled at all forms of foreplay that they think it'll be fun and feel good? Probably not! It's because boys/society/peers convince them that they'll be more accepted if they "do it". The girls think the boys will like them more if they do. Or in some rare cases, they've actually dated for a long while and feel like it's the next logical step to making their relationship "more serious". What Babs was saying is that as far as girls go, it's worthwhile to tell them it's OK to say no and give some good alternatives for activities that will take the focus off sex.
Bottom line is it's the parents job to educate their kids about sex, drinking, religion, etc. Let the schools handle all the other stuff. If you don't want your kid to have sex, discuss it with them. Discuss the good, the bad and the ugly. Answer ALL their questions, don't ignore the ones that make you uncomfortable. If you tell your kid they can discuss anything with you and then avoid answering a question, they won't trust you anymore and will stop asking. Also coach them through how to handle certain situations. If it's a son, they'll get pressure from their friends to "do the deed", help them come up with ways to respond. If it's a daughter, coach them on how to respond to boys and their "advances" and their friends who are discussing it.
I'm not saying you can walk them through everything or that your conversations will absolutely stop them from having sex, but the bottom line is if you're not discussing it with your kid, someone else is. It could be a friend (who is sexually active), it could be a boy/girlfriend, or it could be another adult trying to prey on your child. Wouldn't you rather have them learn from you?
Gen X Mom... I applaud your efforts. I agree that you can have a happy family and life with children. Swapping out evenings of television/internet for college classes might be painful, but it sounds like it worked for you. A little sacrifice goes a long way.
CE-1157550 - nah, In the end very few cases of true murder would be logical. If you take away violent tendencies and any kind of sadistic joy someone might get out of it there are far too many downsides to consider it an option to solve most problems. I didn't necessarily say my personal morals were flexible either. I do know that they are flexible to people, and most people adhere to a set of morals that is placed on them about as long as it doesn't keep them from doing something they want to do. My morals I built myself, outside of the sphere of my predecessors. I of course started with a base that I aquired from my childrearing, but in the end I rejected the morals that I felt were illogical and adopted new ones to suit my perception of the world and my experiences.
Without a proper concern for consequences you are banking on the hopes that your children aren't too stupid to abandon morals they don't understand that have been put in place for their protection from disease and early pregnancy, or that they aren't too smart to realize that the morals you put into place aren't their morals and abandon them too early without giving forethought to the reasoning behind them. Intelligence sets them free... ignorance damns them in this case ;).
Teaching morals is like giving someone a gift that is your opinions. Sure they may open it and try it on while you are there, but if they don't like them... they are going to put them deep in the closet and only bring them out and put them on when they know you are going to be around.
Just read through this again. It seems like Nate is taking responsibility, but the writer of the article is doing everything she can to lay the blame on society. She even alludes to the fact that Obama has changed policies that don't work (her opinion). She is blaming Bush! Is that all liberal news outlets can do? Wow. I am afraid to read it again.
It's not "her opinion." Abstinence-only doesn't work. Full stop. Every study has bore this out. If you are "afraid to read it again" (i.e., face reality), then you appear to fit in well with other conservatives.
Abstinence only education may not work. Abstinence, actual abstinence is 100% fool proof. Its not the idea of abstinence that is wrong its that people don't have enough will power to carry it out. They believe because they have been indoctrinated that sex before marriage is normal and healthy that they can do it without consequences. It is not conservative or religious morality that got us into this situation it is godless secularism and liberal politically correct education that has perverted the our children's purity. From supporting sexual deviancy such as homosexuality and pedophilia to teaching children from an early age that whatever they feel is right our secular society is leading us straight to hell. That's reality.
Just wow on your whole statement. So girls never got knocked up in the 1930's, 40's and 50's? Never sent to homes for unwed mothers and told to give their babies up? Never had a rich daddy send them overseas for a legal abortion in Europe? Never had to pretend the child was their sibling to avoid family shame? The abstinent utopia you describe never existed. Period. Perhaps society is more accepting of pre-marital sex these days, but it is an abject lie to say that societal disapproval in the past stopped unplanned pregnancies. Hogwash and bs.
Sure, abstinence is 100% foolproof when practiced. But what is the answer when it is clear that the vast majority of the population will not practice it? Study after study concludes the prevalence of pre-marital sex, yet your only solution is to tell everyone to just stop? It's worked so well to this point, you must be proud [sarcasm].
People have been getting knocked up out of wedlock since the beginning of time. That doesn't make it right. It doesn't change the fact that you just admitted in your own post. Abstinence is the the only 100% fool proof way to make sure you don't get pregnant. I don't think that "utopia" ever existed and I never said that. What I said was that teen pregnancy rates and pregnancy out of wedlock rates are rising in direct correlation to the degradation and desctruction of Judeo/Christian values by secularists and those who believe that there is no universal morality, only what makes you feel good at the time. I don't have the answer other than what I believe God and the Bible have prescribed and that is heterosexual sex within the bonds of matrimony is the only type of sexual activiy that honors God. When we honor God with our actions including our sexual activity or abstinence from sexual activity we are giving ourselves the best chance to have children when we are emotionally and physically ready. It does not take care of the issue that many children are born into wedlock when a child cannot be financially afforded. Then there is the option of adoption that can be considered. I don't have all the answers. I simply started participating in this conversation because I cannot stand the thought of this article driving some unfortunate young couple into the grasping hands of those who are all too willing to literally scrape, tear and suck the body of their child out of the woman and throw it in the trash. I know and believe with 100% certainty that doing that does not honor God.
I WAS A TEEN MOTHER! You can't judge these kids for the mistakes they make. When your young lifes rules don't apply to you..until they do.
I was 17 when I became pregnant with my boyfriend I had had since the 9th grade. I entered a senior as a pregnant teen. It was sooo hard. I traveled 100 miles to my doctors visits every week because it was high risk preg. Attended school everyday I didn't go to the doctor and graduated just the same as any other senior in my class. I moved into my own house before my 18th birthday, married the father at 19 and divorced by 20. Yes it was your typical sad teen mother story except, I didn't struggle to support my child. I was lucky, had a great job at 19 and bought house, car, dog in the backyard. Had the American dream right all on my own.
The point is its not impossible for these kids to make it in this world, for them to stay out of the poor house. It takes dedication. It takes supportive family. Society sets these kids up to fail by telling horror stories of what all teen parents will surely endure. Hey its hard, not gonna lie. Its hard caring for someone else, not caring for yourself anymore. Working working working to pay bills and food on the table. THATS LIFE!
PARENTS PREPARE YOUR CHILDREN FOR LIFE. LET THEM KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON TEEN SEX, TEEN PREGNANCY. ITS NOT THE SCHOOLS JOB ALONE TO EDUCATE OUR KIDS ON SEX. ITS PRIMARILY YOUR JOB. LEAVE NO GRAY AREAS TO WHERE YOU STAND ON THE SUBJECT. SET THE EXAMPLE BE THE EXAMPLE FOR HOW YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO LIVE AND ACT.
great post
Thanks for sharing your story. Unfortunately, it is no longer so easy for a recent HS grad to get a good job as you did without higher education (and even a college degree is no guarantee in these uncertain times). I'm not saying that young teen parents are destined to fail, but it will take them much longer to achieve the same level of financial security that you had as a young mother.
I read this story with sadness. Especially that part about the teen pregnancy rate is rising, and the USA already has the highest rate in the industrialized world. What in the hell are we as a society doing? Why do we put up with it? There should be family planning clinics, easily accessible to all young people, where they can get the birth control instruction and devices that they need. I have no problem with abstinence, but it is not a cure-all, as the daughter of the former governor of Alaska can attest!
I am not going to "should" all over the two pathetic young people in this story. But- They should be aware of the alternatives to planning to care for this child alone. There are other methods- abortion and adoption. For every healthy, white child, under one year old, there are about 50 (fifty) couples who would be delighted to adopt the child. Giving up a child for adoption is the most selfless, generous acts, any person can make. Adoption is better for the child, better for the teen pregnant girls, better for the adoptive parents, and better for society. Everybody wins.
I am delighted that the feds are getting wise to what works, and what does not work. The states should also pick up some of the slack, and institute comprehensive sex education programs in the schools, which cover the entire spectrum of programs, including all types of birth control devices, and instructions on STD's. Non-government organizations, like Planned parenthood, and other NGOs can also become involved in stanching this national calamity.
So many of the spawn of irresponsible teens, become public charges, wind up in prison, or become teen parents themselves, that a more comprehensive approach is needed.
That's wonderful, but what about the "other" children. Yes, adoption is often a better option for white children, while hundreds of thousands of minority children languish in the system, unable to find families to adopt them. That also needs to be considered when counselling teens to give their child up for adoption. We've all heard horror stories of foster care and kids shuttled from one family to the next, some just in it for the stipend they receive from the state.
that said, abstinence only sex education does not work. Sex before marriage and unwed mothers have been around since before Christ (thus stoning, and the shotgun weddings so popular for much of U.S. history). We could play the blame game until we're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that teens will have sex, and while schools teach them the dangers and how to try to avoid them, parents need to be teaching them their values and good judgment. School is not a substitute for upbringing, and except for cases of rape, peer pressure is a lot more likely to lead teens into having sex than a sterile discussion of birth control in health class.
I as a former Teen parent can speak with remembrance and reverence to what these two kids are in for. I am an abnormality as I completed my master and all of my children have completed or currently in secondary education. I ultimately had to utilize the military to obtain my degrees and yes it was difficult to support my teenage wife and son on a bagboy salary but we survived with the support of our families. my career had a pause I attribute to my oldest, my life did not it went into hyper-drive due to the responsibility and decisions one is forced to make. It is not society’s place to dictate abortion, adoption or other methods to deal with the "problem" it is not a problem it is life. as the popular saying goes stuff happens, it is how it is dealt with that determines ones future. I can and do blame my mistakes and circumstances for difficult events in my life, but I don't dwell on them they have made me the person I am and my children who they are and yes like many fathers I am proud of them. I also believe man is suppose to struggle the key is to struggle on important matters.
I 15 years old when I was in their position 38 years ago. I chose to marry and keep my child. My marriage didn't last but I never regretted my decision to keep and raise my son. To say it was hard would be a gross understatement; however, I did eventually remarry, made it to college, got my Master's and am living the life I imagined 40 years ago. My son is a remarkable man - talented, hardworking, loved and respected by all who know him. While my "mistake" long ago changed my life forever, he is by no means "a mistake". He is a blessing. I applaud these young people for taking responsibility for their actions and for committing to doing their best for their child. With their values and determination, I think they will have a good shot at a happy future. May their lives be blessed...
I agree with most statements above. Each choice is difficult and important. Here's the problem, when I got pregnant at 19, I had no idea about the real world, finacials or working. I just figured I'd take the kid with me... That obviously only happens on reality shows. My point is, that even though these options are available for these teens, they have never experienced the real world and cannot make an educated decision.
I have two boys now, 9 and 10, and have been a single parent for 9 years. Thankfully for society, I am strong willed and intelligent. I do not use the system, have a fabulous, good paying job, and am almost done with my bachelors with a 3.6 GPA. If these parents want to succeed, they can. Most think it's easier to live off the system.
Maybe if we make it more challenging to get support, all people will think about their actions. Everyone knows if you get pregnant, the government will support you. Some even plan this as their future. We make it too easy to screw up in this country, and not be held accountable for your actions.
My son wanted to skip school today becuase its Donuts with Dad day, it breaks his heart to see "all the happy kids playing with their dads". Good luck to this couple, and I hope for the childs sake the dad stays around.
agree somewhat. Support can be good and necessary to some but should not be there as an easy way out. It should be limited.
Teen parent here, you should go to school with your son on Donuts with Dad Day and say that you are his mother/father. My daughter once gave me a homemade card that said, "You are my mother/father." You serve in both roles as a single parent. Good luck with your children.
I am a single mother. I had my daughter at age 26. I was working as a waitress and barely making enough money to support myself. I had to enter into the welfare system for help. I had to interveiw with 4 differant social workers for all our needs. One social worker each for TANF, food stamps, child care, and medical card. I can tell you that not one of them at anytime even mentioned a FAFSA form, Pell Grant, or how to become self sufficient. I had enough sense to ask questions and work hard to better our situation. I entered into college, and my daughter and I lived off of $ 305.00 a month for 2 years. I earned my associates degree and gained employment with an income wich was able to support her and I without the help of the goverment. I will also tell anyone reading this, we had no help from her father, or my family ( my mother died of cancer when I was 19 ). I will also tell you that most of my neighbors, it my rent subsidized apartment, were single mothers. They also have never had any of their social workers help them to get into school to better their situation. Most of those mothers are employed but, I can tell you that on minimum wage they will always need the welfare system for food stamps, child and health care. My point in writting this is please, when you are faced with any girl in your family, church, or community that is pregnant and needs help, don't sit back and judge, or turn away. Please offer your help and guidance, whatever it may be, baby-sitting while they go to class, helping them to get into school, anything. Remember we all want this under privilaged child that will one day be a member of your child or grandchilds future. I beat the odds by shear determination, hard work and many nights of crying myself to sleep. I will never pass up the chance to help a young pregnant girl. It is never okay to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Thank you, Emily...it's not just teens who struggle to raise a child on their own, it's anyone who does it . I commend your wonderful attitude and hope more people read this besides me and take the chance to help where they can.
Every teenager who gets pregnant should be strongly encouraged to have an abortion. Having a baby at this age is just plain stupid, costly, and wrong. Not only do these kids not need a baby at this age, our society doesn't need it either, as we already have too many people on the planet.
Why should I, as a taxpayer, be forced to help support so many unplanned, unwanted babies? Let the anti-abortion crowd do it all!
You are aware that until just recently our civilization was raised by parents who started their families in their teen years. Kids shouldn't irresponsibly get pregnant but they can be held accountable to raise a child or at least allow that child a chance to live with parents who want to raise a child.
Ann...I must comment on your "stupid, costly and wrong".
I was 17 when I had my daughter. Bought a home before she was 4. Worked, volunteered (still do), and raised a beautiful young woman. She turned 19 this month, she was an honor student in HS, she played sports for her entire school career. She is currently a freshmen in college, who attends college full time, and works.
I raised an honest, smart, respectable child, and I was a child myself. I have friends who still don't have kids and don't have a CLUE what life is about. I gave up a lot, but that was fine with me, I see the result of my choices and she is BEAUTIFUL.
I also have a 10 year old son, who is a great student, he's an honest respectable little man.
You didn't support me one penny Ann...we did it ourselves. Before you bash a teen parent, why don't you worry more about using your tax dollars to support drug dealers, and drug users on the system. I'd much rather help a teen parent than a drug user, but heck.....there are more drug users on the system than teen parents, and you nor I have a choice.
I hope you don't have children with your attitude. If you do.....you need to rethink your thoughts and hope that a teen close to you doesn't end up in this position, because no matter how good the parents are, or how bad, it will happen.
I know great kids raised by terrible parents and I know terrible kids raised by great parents.
Ha ha. I do have a child, a daughter I planned for and had at age 25. I love her very much. I let her know early on that she should behave responsibly, that she could use birth control with my permission as a teenager if necessary and that if she should get pregnant too young, an abortion would be the best solution. Now she is an adult with a college degree, marriage and two wanted children who came along when she was in her mid 20s.
This is the way everyone should handle this issue.
I have to disagree....abortion is not the answer. I'm not anti-abortion, I believe it is a choice every woman should have. My daughter will do just as well as yours, no question there.
If I had handled it the way you say, I would not have my beautiful daughter now would I. I wouldn't trade her for the world.
I also had NO help, not the state, the federal govt, or parents. My mother was an alcoholic, my father died when I was a baby. I did it on my own, and I didn't hurt my life and as a matter of fact am doing much better than many of my friends, without kids and a college degree.
I've got the house, the cars, the motorcycles. I get to go on vacations, I have money in savings and retirement plans. I'm most likely very close to where I'd be if I wasn't a teen parent. Did I plan it? No, did I go with the flow and do the best I did. Does my daughter know all of this? Yes she does. She can respect me as a mother, having her as young as I did, doing as well as I did for us both.
If she was to come to me at 17 and say she wanted an abortion had she become pregnant, it would have been HER choice, but I can guarantee you she wouldn't have used that option.
I just don't agree with you saying "abortion is the only solution", there are MANY other solutions out there, and they are just as good.
ha ha, if you had never had your daughter you would never have missed her. You are one of the exceptions if you didn't get any federal assistance; most do!
I have a right to complain about this since I'm forced to help support all these kids that never should have been born. Most grow up to continue this awful cycle. They do not improve our society; they are mostly burdens. When aborted early on in a pregnancy, they are not yet real "people" that anyone will miss. They are tiny, developing fetuses.
All teens should use birth control or have abortions provided free by the government. It would save them a lot of heartache as well as reduce the burden on society.
AO - I agree with ha-ha; my wife and I had our daughter at 16 and both we and she are fine. No government aid, no help to speak of, just our own hard work. She now 26, married, and has a great job. Our two boys, one from when we were 18, are doing great also. One is still in college and one has a job he loves.
There are always choices so abortion is NOT the "only solution".
Correct, I wouldn't missed her, I wouldn't have known her.....but I would certainly have I lived with the guilt for my entire life saying "what if". It's just my personal opinion.
I was an exception, however I have a harder time dealing with us supporting and paying for criminals to get their Masters degrees in prison, for paying for rehab for drug dealers who just do it because they are court ordered to. I have more issues with us bailing out big banks and companies, only for them to give themselves huge bonuses.
I'd much rather help a teen parent (and I have, I've worked with teen parents helping them get on their feet) than a criminal, and we have much more money going out for criminals than we do teen parents.
The system is a mess, the welfare system has no accountability. That I also have a problem with. I knew a woman who cared for a child in state custody, who's mother was pregnant with #6. But, in my state those on welfare are REQUIRED to find work in a specific amount of time. I would like to add drug testing to this, however I doubt that will ever happen, as there are too many corrupt politicians who use themselves.
It's not a perfect world, we each need to pick and choose our battles. I just know I sleep at night knowing I made the right decision for ME, a selfless decision. I don't question "what if" or look at children who would be here age, had I not had her and wonder "what if".
I guess I'm a lucky one.
ha, ha, why are we forcing young women (like yourself) to feel so much guilt over making the decision to abort an unplanned pregnancy? That's one of the big problems and why so many teenagers are giving birth. If they got a different message that they should abort (because it's in everyone's best interest), then abortions (the very BEST solution for every teenage pregnancy) would be much more common.
But religious nuts continue to make girls and women who have abortions feel like they are murderers. They are not. Life is hard enough without having a baby when you are a teenager. No guilt needed. Most of the (smart) women I know who have had abortions feel very relieved, not guilty.
Abortions could cause heartache. Some people aren't oblivious to the development of a human being. Also, birth control isn't without risks and complications. Same with abortions.
I'm not forcing women to feel guilt over it. I clearly wrote that it was my personal opinion. I know many who did make the decision to abort, and not one wishes they had done it now.
If we as a society say "it's okay, just get an abortion" we're not teaching them anything. We're not teaching them abstinence, we're not teaching them NOT to have sex, we're teaching them to go ahead, because they can simply get an abortion if needed/wanted. What is that teaching them? It's giving them a green light because there is nothing to worry about, a few hundred bucks and it's over. Many do it over and over again, not learning anything from it.
We need to teach them that they need to live by what ever decision they make and NONE are easy. I isn't everyone's "best interest" to abort.
I already stated I'm not against abortion, it's a personal choice.
I'm glad the smart women you know feel very relieved, they had nothing holding them back, they had their lives, to themselves, and that was for them....but it clearly isn't for everyone. As you will see on here, if you read more comments, there are many more like me, who did it ourselves, not with the help of handouts.
There is adoption as an option too, it isn't just abortion.
What would you have done if your daughter did get pregnant and wanted to keep it and not abort? Would you have supported her? If so, did she know that? Was that an option for her? They need options, not just "don't do it" and if you do "get an abortion".
I want to add, a very close friend had an abortion at 18....she can no longer have children, and wants children. It's a direct result of the abortion. Abortion is not without risk. She thinks about it daily, because she would have the child she wants now, had she chosen adoption rather than abortion. I wouldn't want to live in her head every day, with a desire to have a child and the inability to do so, because she was told abortion was the only option when it happened. She wasn't taught there were other options, and she'll tell you today it was too easy and taught her nothing, only that it was a simple solution, that could be done again and again....
Dame Quixote, abortions don't have to cause so much heartache. Anti-abortion fanatics have mostly caused women to feel this way. Instead of telling girls and women we understand why they would choose to abort, our society tells them they are murderers who SHOULD feel guilty. You have to be very strong to go against this tide of wrong-headed thinking.
WHAT? So I guess you are totally against vegetarians as well? Because they think meat is murder. Are they crazy? For some people, human life is sacred. Society doesn't have to tell some of us that. I was a liberal 90's daughter and I still CHOSE life. Because my child is sacred to me, at every stage of life. My daughter is pretty psyched about being born too.
Abortion is legal, didn't say I was going to pickett the clinics or anything. But odds are, at least a couple of women will regret their abortions just like some will regret adoption or parenthood at a young age. So what, exactly, makes abortion exempt from having consequences? There's nothing wrong with values and morals. Despite what the ultra left would lead you to believe. I miss the Bill Clinton democrats. I really do. I miss Bill Clinton too.
The simple answer to all of this is abstinence and or better teaching of birth control.
I remember my daughter bringing home the baby as part of a class her Jr. year, which is mandatory in her HS. It was computerized...you could have a baby with colic, or a baby who was born from an addicted mother. Our daughter was up every hour on the hour for 24 hours with this baby. She had to console it, figure out what was wrong. You could not ignore it, you could not hit it, you couldn't just leave it. She would have failed that class if she had done any of the above. The teacher plugged it into a computer and it showed her everything, from feedings to changing soiled diapers to how long it cried, if it had been shaken, hit etc. That was the BEST lesson she could have had...she saw first hand how hard it is to raise a baby. It wasn't like the days we were in HS and carried around an egg in a shoe box.
She even warned her best friends parents when she went for a sleep over....that she had the baby! It kept the entire house up that night....we still laugh about it today.
Thankfully she loves children. She babysits for people we know on weekends and loves the children more than I can say, but has plans...finish her masters, marry, buy a house and then start a family. It's the "ideal" way, but not always how it happens.
Angelus67
Congratulations on succeeding and sharing.....that it is possible. I was happy to see a father post, not just a mom.
We beat the odds Angelus....and I'm proud of both of us for stepping up to the plate and not taking the "easy" route.
ha, ha. My daughter chose to have an abortion at age 19. I encouraged her to do this, but because she was an adult she made her own decision. I told her I would not be willing to raise her child, that it would be her responsibility. She was in college, unready to be a mother, no serious relationship with the father, no money, etc. She decided to abort and did not feel guilty, ever. She had full support for her decision and that's why she had an easier time than most.
I knew there had to be a reason you were so pro doing it. You and I are very different....I would have been willing to HELP raise my daughter child, if it happened. It would have been her choice of course whether to keep or not, but I would have supported her in what ever decision she made.
I still would, but I would never have said to her "I won't raise it, it's your responsibility" I would have said "the decision is yours, I will support you in any way I can, and that would include helping with the child, so she could finish college"
We're just two different people with very different opinions.
ha, ha, I think parents make a big mistake in taking over responsibility for raising their grandchildren. That means the actual parent is not held responsible for their mistake. The lesson is, you (the teen) make a mistake and I (your mother or father) will be responsible. Wrong! If people can't or won't raise their kids, they shouldn't be born.
I didn't say take over...I said help....that can be in the form of babysitting etc..I wouldn't take over.
I know 40 year old parents who have their kids in daycare all day, off to someone else at night then someone else on weekends. I know teens who are much more responsible than that.
I also know 40 year old parents with great jobs, great lives, great kids who's parents help.
There is nothing wrong with helping. I'd give of myself to do that. I wouldn't raise the child, and I wouldn't take over....I would help, and she knows I'm here to help if needed.
I hope your daughter made the decision to have an abortion for the right reasons and not due to a lack of support from her parents.
thank you ha ha, for bringing up the egg in the shoe box....i totally remember doing that in middle school! My friend/next door neighbor and I were so paranoid that we were going to break them...but we did make the coolest shoe-box "rooms" for them..thanks for the memory.
Your welcome Catastic....my daughter got quite a kick out of the egg story.....until her baby kept her up all night....she decided the egg would have been easier, they can't cry!
Wow. Ann, why are you so bitter? All kinds of people have empathy, even non religious ones. It seems you are uptight about something?
I was lucky that I never had to make those type of choices but I applaud Nate. He can have a successful life with a child... and when he is older, they will be grown and he can enjoy middle age. I had my only child later, and he will live with me past retirement.I wouldn't miss him if he wasn't born, but you know what? He told me yesterday (he is 7) that he is happy that I chose to have him, and he is happy to be alive.
jennyct, I am not bitter. Sheesh, you people who support teen pregnancy think anyone is bitter if they don't agree with you that it's a great idea? Teen pregancy is NOT a good idea. Not for anyone. How can you possibly support a child having a child? You are nuts!
I told her I would not be willing to raise her child, that it would be her responsibility.
There is only one word I can use to describe that statement: heartless. I don't really have anything else to say about it. There aren't any words to describe the darkness that must exist inside a person that would actually drive her daughter into the arms of those that would kill your grandchild.
Again I will say parents need to be the number one people involved in their kids sex life. As creepy as that sounds its true. Parents need to teach their kids what they expect from them. You cant let your children learn from the world how to act, what choices to make. You have to give your children a strong sense of self to battle what they are going to encounter as normal teens. You CAN NOT sit by idly as your kids are growing up.