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The 'other white meat' meets the runway

Image: Elkhart Municipal Airport
John Brecher / msnbc.com
Joe Forys looks out over Elkhart Municipal Airport from its tower. Forys worked for the FAA at the airport in South Bend until he was fired in 1981 by President Reagan. After several years of doing a "little bit of everything," Forys was hired by the city of Elkhart in 1989 as an air traffic controller. This image is a stitched composite of several frames.

In this city where President Barack Obama championed a federal stimulus bill free of "earmarks" and "pork," some elected officials and citizens are questioning whether the first "shovel-ready" project here to be funded by the legislation – a $4.2 million resurfacing of a runway at the Elkhart Municipal Airport – meets that promise.

It's an argument being played out in various forms around the nation as the money from the $787 billion economic stimulus package that Obama signed on Feb. 19 begins trickling down to the local level. (Click here to read msnbc.com reporter Tom Curry's account of how the money is making its way to Elkhart.) It often wears partisan garb, but at its heart is the vexing question of how you define "pork" and "earmarks" -- terms commonly equated with hogs at the trough.

As Associated Press reporter Calvin Woodward explained in a Feb. 9 article titled "Obama has it both ways on pork," the Elkhart runway resurfacing and other projects that will benefit from the surge in federal spending are technically not earmarks. But that's not to say that they are pork-free.

"There are no 'earmarks,' as they are usually defined, inserted by lawmakers in the bill," he wrote. "Still, some of the projects bear the prime characteristics of pork tailored to benefit specific interests or to have thinly disguised links to local projects."

This Pro Publica article -- published on msnbc.com also before the legislation was finalized – also detailed numerous provisions and exemptions intended to benefit special interests or specific businesses or industries.

In Elkhart's case, the question boils down to whether the airport project benefits the few or the many.
There is no debate about whether the 6,500-foot runway needs resurfacing – it has visible cracks that are sprouting weeds. (Click here to read the Elkhart Truth's story on the airport resurfacing project.)

But there is plenty of discussion over the wisdom of spending federal money on it when the city with one of the nation's highest unemployment rates has so many other more-pressing needs. (Click here to read msnbc.com reporter Bill Dedman's piece on U.S. cities that resist recession and Elkhart's spiraling job loss problem.)

David Henke, one of three Republicans on Elkhart's nine-member Common Council, said he has two problems with the project.

"It's a little surprising to see stimulus money go to an airport that 99.9 percent of the citizens do not access," he said, referring to the fact that the airport is used by private and corporate aircraft and a few charter operations but has no commercial service. "The second point is that the stimulus should be used exclusively for long-term job reclamation. Repaving is going to help some contractors … but at the end of the day, once the project is done, the jobs are gone. It's not going to bring in new planes, it's not going to bring any new revenue."

Mayor Dick Moore, a Democrat who set the agenda for applications for stimulus funding, responds that such criticism misses the mark because the funds came from a $1.1 billion pool dedicated to airport renovation or maintenance and could not be used for other purposes.

"I guess we could've turned the money down, but we were at the top of the list because we already had filed with the FAA," he said. "… We would have eventually done it at great expense, with local dollars or by getting a grant and having to come up with matching funds."

He and Andy Jones, the airport's general manager, stress that the airport creates badly needed jobs throughout the city.

Image: Elkhart airport
John Brecher / msnbc.com
Andy Jones

"Flying commercial eats up a lot of time for these executives; a lot of times it's really cheaper for them to be able to move in and out of where they do business quickly and efficiently," explained Jones.

Moore adds that while the airport's economic benefit to the city may be incalculable, it is not insubstantial when it leads to deals being finalized with local suppliers.

"When they fly away, what did they leave behind?" he wondered, musing about the departure of executives after such a meeting. "An order for the $3 million or $4 million?"

Beyond that, the mayor estimates that the runway repair alone will provide 250 short-term jobs, a number that strikes critics as too high but may not be far from the mark, according to Gene Yarkie, regional vice president with Rieth Riley Construction Co., Inc., which plans to bid on the project.

"A project like that seems quick and easy, but there are a lot of steps along the way that go into getting that to the runway or highway -- aggregates have to be mined, processed, trucked and then applied," he said. "A lot of jobs are created along the way."

Slowly boiling beneath the current debate about the runway project is a bigger question about the airport's net benefit to the city.

Henke, the city councilman, said the airport runs an annual deficit of $675,000 – an expense that is born by city taxpayers. That leads some to question whether Elkhart even needs an airport, especially since there is a regional airport just 15 minutes away in South Bend, which offers nonstop flights to Atlanta, New York and other big cities.

Henke said he does not count himself among them.

"I'm not saying I'm anti-airport, but what I am saying is you've got to be smart about your investments," he said. "If you' own a lake cottage and you're behind on your payments, this is not a time to put an addition on."

How is your city, county or state spending its share of its stimulus funding? Do you agree with the priorities that have been set for the money? Do you even know where it's going? Have you tried to get information about where the stimulus money is going and been frustrated? Please share your thoughts or experiences in the comments section below.

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{"commentId":6892574,"authorDomain":"oldcoach"}

Our tax money trail---President Obama to the senate and house to the governors to their senate and house to the mayors to their city councelors/police juriors and finialy what is left of the original money goes to their pet projects--American politics at its best--did we really believe it would be different?? at least with tax cuts we get to decide how to spend our money--with the stimulus it is taken out of our hands and placed into our politicians--of course that is their speciality---spending our money on their pet projects

{"commentId":6892574,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"oldcoach"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#51 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":6892617,"authorDomain":"sallyatir"}

obama is going too do nothing for the economy it seems to me you dont have too be a high school graduate to see that.just look around do we really need these roads fixed how bout the bridges they lasted this long weres the 4 million jobs at the one that already make 30-40 an hour at scale work are gonna make the money.all of us that were making 12-18 an hour are gonna be broke and homeless and the people that bought the houses at the worst time in the market ya buy a home at double that its worth if you did your a dumba** ive seen your house thats worth 140 grand for sale for 250 grand you had to be a moron for buying somthing like that.here is the real stimulus plan give the american people 200 grand a piece it dont take a genius too see how fast the economy would have been boosted in a couple of weeks think about it but the government dont want to see us get ahead they want us to rely on there college educated degrees to help us what a big fat joke just like at your work place youve seen it take a guy that has 20 years in lets say air condition and get rid of him and put a 20 year old that just graduated college and majored in arts thats the the problom with today the goverment knows it all and were just the mice in the maze we all need to make a stand and let them know thats our money we want to make the decision on where it goes and how its used come on help the american people out for a change you give it out to other countries like its bottled water give us some were the ones that make your bank accounts bigger every year america is failing dont you all see that how smart do you have to be to see the big picture oh i forgot were not that high piece of art on your wall that you paid 4-5 middle class a year wages for thanks obama and thank your crooked car salesman of a vp great choice you really know what your doing and at last weres the birth certi at at least bush tried but its people like you that wanted him out and now look were going down like the titantic ya youll be in our history books as the captain of the ship we hit the ice burg and now were going down what you gonna do know!!!!!

{"commentId":6892617,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"sallyatir"}
    Reply#52 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6892625,"authorDomain":"jkobas"}

    Amsterdam, NY has been effectively making Federal Government money disappear for decades.

    It is skillfully routed into the pockets of friends ans relatives of the elected officials with nothing to show for it.

    Business fronts set up with nothing inside but space, Waste treatment plants which don't perform waste treatment (without being re-done) Shopping malls that nobody wants to go into. There is a wealth of how to knowledge to be had here for the neophyte.

    Any US city looking for advise or council on how to pull these disappearing acts off without any consequences or jail time should contact this municipality for training.

    They have several in the works as I write this, so make haste...

    {"commentId":6892625,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"jkobas"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#53 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6892712,"authorDomain":"set4life01"}

    It was once said pigs would fly before we would have a black man as president,

    sure enough 100 days into his presidency

    SWINE FLU

    {"commentId":6892712,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"set4life01"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#54 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:18 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6893470,"authorDomain":"cartalk"}

    Bigot!

    {"commentId":6893470,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"cartalk"}
      #54.1 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:51 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":6892716,"authorDomain":"sportkar1"}

      PORK,PORK,PORK.... Well,well,well o said it right when he said 'lip stick on a pig is still a pig". You can call it stimulus but its still pork,pork,pork. families are hungry, homeless and uneducated and the dems are worried about the fat cats and power grabbing. change we all can see and now beleive in. what a circus.

      {"commentId":6892716,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"sportkar1"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#55 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:19 PM EDT
      {"commentId":6892792,"authorDomain":"alpha-omega"}

      Close the airport. use it for a park. Take the stimulus money and retool one of the RV plants to build small hybird cars. Use the $675 million a year to subsidize the new car company nad retool another RV plant to make fuel efficient hybrid trucks.

      long term jobs created, US auto industry revitalized, new park for the community.....sounds like money well spent.

      OH, I forgot, politicians are involved. Please disregard this post and return to "buesiness as usual".........

      {"commentId":6892792,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"alpha-omega"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#56 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:22 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":6893060,"authorDomain":"castillo-rudysubmariner"}

      That is a great Idea - for anybody to drag strip = Trust me I was in Hawaii = I use to race there and all you pay is 10 dollars per car to compete and 2 dollars just to see...Its a great investment and spent time to see people race each other....and it was safe.

      Its cheap - there is food, drinks, gas, care at the same time....cars will be more used - materials being spent - economy will be in valuable use if every city had a drag strip. Its not that expensive - but its fun to spend some hours away or be in it..

      {"commentId":6893060,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"castillo-rudysubmariner"}
        Reply#57 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:34 PM EDT
        {"commentId":6893299,"authorDomain":"cartalk"}

        What stimulus money?  Here in the city and county of Los Angeles NONE of that money will ever be used to improve the infrastructure.  The elected HOORS will gobble it up and use it to fund their little kingdoms.  The roads and freeways are sooo bad that tree roots are bulging through them or the holes and cracks are so large that they will swallow up anything smaller than a Hummer.  Many a front suspension has been ruined on our impassable roads.

        {"commentId":6893299,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"cartalk"}
          Reply#58 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:43 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6893320,"authorDomain":"azruby"}

          I live in Pennsylvania where our governor is spending the money by adding good ole boys to the payroll for such things as over seeing the spending of the stimulus money and advertising the spending of the money.  Of course he requires everyone else to make cuts with as he puts it without any whining or complaining.  Based upon previous experience with this man he will spend the remainder of the money on Philly or Pittsburg for probably more sport arenas as he has shown many times that the rest of the state is totally irrelevant.   Our only hope is he does something more blatantly that will allow him to be impeached.

          {"commentId":6893320,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"azruby"}
          • 3 votes
          Reply#59 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6893464,"authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}

          I am not sure why MistyDawn would pay $100. for admission to the Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum when I have an annual pass for self/wife for $75!! And money here ($500 Million) is going straight to the Dept of Highways. Most Americans use I-40 and it will help make it useable again. In case you didn't hear, this is a Stimulus Package and Moody's clearly illustrates that personal income tax refunds may get you $1.05 for each dollar spent, corporate refunds 79 cents, food stamps $1.75, roads/bridges etc $1.50 or more. If all of us in debt get money, we sure as heck better NOT spend it; instead, we need to reduce out debt or save it. The FEDS are trying to correct this disaster caused by huge corporate greed and yes, by the greed of little people on Elm street borrowing money from lenders on Main street, that they knew they couldn't pay back . Surprise! Capitalism would work perfectly if there was no greed or egocentism and with concern for others. Sign me: career military capitalist.

          {"commentId":6893464,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}
            Reply#60 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:51 PM EDT
            {"commentId":6893497,"authorDomain":"ngm50321"}

            The "middle class" will never disappear. The MC is necessary to keep the lower classes from rebeling against the upper classes. By creating a middle class you give people something to protect, i.e. jobs, homes, etc. from poorer people. In other words poor people have two choices, move up to middle class or do without. The middle class is not going to give up what they have, so it is in the interest of the upper class to keep these two factions at odds. The upper class owns the jobs and the armies (through gov't.) so they can keep the middle class at bay. This has gone on forever. America is just the best at hiding it.

            {"commentId":6893497,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"ngm50321"}
              Reply#61 - Tue May 5, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6893700,"authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}

              Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt the emotional diatribes with facts and attempts at reason, BUT, how about giving the president 6-12 months to see if he can start to clean up the mess that Bush left us. You know $1 trillion for a diastrous war that was unnecessary and damaging to our personal rights, destroying families of my military comrades and losing respect for us around the world (as well as letting the 911 perpetrators go free) was not all that good a thing. By the way, Nate-1051703, the middle class wasn't created, it developed from natural economic forces in the 17th and 18th century as the USA prospered as a whole from hard work, scientific developments and the Industrial Revolution. Doesn't anyone READ anymore??!!

              {"commentId":6893700,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}
                Reply#62 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:01 PM EDT
                {"commentId":6893850,"authorDomain":"randynason"}

                I agree totally. Most of these intellectual wanna-bees are sadly lacking in anything that has to do with reason. They forget how the Bush administration brought us here and listen to the Right's ramblings. I for one will not forget this past eight years of crime, lies and insult. F- them all in their tea-bagging a-holes.

                {"commentId":6893850,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"randynason"}
                  #62.1 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6894546,"authorDomain":"waffen-ltd"}

                  Yes I do read..Might I suggest the same to you Ken/OKC...The President (any President) cannot do ANYTHING w/o the approval of the Senate/Congress...The majority of time the Bush administration had to deal with a Democrat S/C so place the blame where it belongs...As for giving BamBam 6-12 mnths...I suspect he has already shown his true Political Acumen in the 1st 100 days..I have fear we won't survive his type of "Goverment" that long..As a vet all I can ask is that the People vote in 2010..That is the way We can send them OUR message..As for the Middle class and it's origins...The current administration is destroying all the things you mentioned..Especially the "HARD" work portion...This isn't even in the Dem vocabulary...All of you Liberals are in for a BIG surprise...

                  {"commentId":6894546,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"waffen-ltd"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #62.2 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6896707,"authorDomain":"denroe0111"}

                  "The majority of time the Bush administration had to deal with a Democrat S/C so place the blame where it belongs"

                  not only do you not read but you obviously cannot do simple math either...6 yrs of Repub controlled congress vs 2 years with Dems does not equal MAJORITY of the time with Dem congress

                  {"commentId":6896707,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"denroe0111"}
                    #62.3 - Tue May 5, 2009 3:17 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":6893848,"authorDomain":"railfan65"}

                    What stimulus money, It all went to state government(a bad waste) and big cities ( even bigger waste). We wont see a dime here and we are worse of than Appalchia here, and every scammer in the US comes here trying to steal land or buildings. Once again we are by-passed for the big vote havens

                    {"commentId":6893848,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"railfan65"}
                      Reply#63 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6893914,"authorDomain":"glover03"}

                      So, LAUSD presented a budget to the school board saying their was not enough money and they had to lay off teachers. The school board saw the budget and laid off teachers. LAUSD conveniently "forgot" to mention the millions of dollars in stimulus money they were told they would recieve the day BEFORE they convinced the school board to vote to lay off teachers. Obama has since SPECIFICALLY said that the money was to go to prevent teacher lay offs. Guess who's still getting laid off.......So a perfect example of stimulus money that SHOULD be going to save jobs, and instead the LOCAL government agencies are playing games with it.

                      {"commentId":6893914,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"glover03"}
                        Reply#64 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":6893915,"authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}

                        Hello to you people who won't /can't read the mulltipl news sources demonstrating Obama's birth certificate. Did you not know that Sen McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. That wasn't a state, nor a territory. Where were all you people when we had the las administration listening in on our phone calls, letting bin Laden go free and the kings of industry do what they wished at the middle class and poor expense. Did I spend 26 years in the military ftohelp protect these responses from the spinal cord?

                        {"commentId":6893915,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"kenneth-wainner"}
                          Reply#65 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":6893957,"authorDomain":"waylonone"}

                          Stimulus money? Our city was promised something like 7 million dollars and the city manager is claiming we never got any of it and probably won't see any of it until maybe next year. But according to another government website our city DID get the money. So we don't know who to believe, all we know is nothing is happening.

                          {"commentId":6893957,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"waylonone"}
                            Reply#66 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":6893961,"authorDomain":"j123butt"}

                            How about building new shelters, we are going to need them once Nobama gets done with us.

                            {"commentId":6893961,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"j123butt"}
                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#67 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":6893988,"authorDomain":"j123butt"}

                            I can't believe so many stupid people voted for this idiot, and i was a democrat last year.

                            {"commentId":6893988,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"j123butt"}
                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#68 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:15 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":6894145,"authorDomain":"ngm50321"}

                            Hey Ken/OKC: You are one of the middle class that has been created: The upper class's military. The upper class leads you and let's you believe that you got everything through hard work, but they are the ones that are pulling your strings to help them keep down the only class that has reason to revolt against them. The poor. We, the middle class, don't object to the upper class because we believe we will someday be one of them, but they won't let that happen, they need us right where we are.

                            {"commentId":6894145,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"ngm50321"}
                              Reply#69 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:23 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":6894447,"authorDomain":"rwcole40"}

                              The Big "O" never promoised good change, only change. He did not change anything except what we will be paying for for the rest of our lives and our childrens lives. He has the same people as Clinton did. 9-11 was because of Clinton, the Fanny May and Freddie Mac fiasco was from Clinton. But all you ever hear from Obama is Bush did it all wrong. They say everyones VOTE counts but they say Obama won by a landslide. On the Electoral Colledge side only, by the every Vote counts side he only won by a few votes. That tells you he will be re elected and it will continue. This one always gets me. The people that make more money need to pay more in taxes. I am no genius but 28% of $100,000,000.00 a year income is more than 28% of $80,000.00 a year income. Why should anyone be paying a different % than anyone else? They already pay more! Why? Do they use Gov. services more? Does the Military do more for them? The answer is NO NO NO. Flat Tax is fair, and everyone will be Taxed on what the spend not what they earn. That way Drug dealers, AIG execs, Goverment Officials, and you and I pay the same and then we all pay. How can Obama be tuff on tax cheaters when half his staff did not pay thier taxes? All hog wash. Pork and more Pork. You will see if you have not figured it out. Obama will just keeep blaming Bush and he will keep on saying " These are tuff times and it will take some time" I predict you will be hearing that for the next 7 years and 350 days. Just for your info, I am middle class and was not totally happy with Bush either but Obama is just a talker and thief.

                              {"commentId":6894447,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"rwcole40"}
                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#70 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":6894456,"authorDomain":"gregory-gruna"}

                              To prove how stupid our government operates they created a hugh bailout for Chrysler. Chrysler then turns around and will close all the manufacturing plants in the good old USA and upgrade the plants in Mexico. WTF.

                              {"commentId":6894456,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"gregory-gruna"}
                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#71 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":6894645,"authorDomain":"njmick"}

                              Wonder how many Americans will be working in Mexico?

                              {"commentId":6894645,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"njmick"}
                              • 2 votes
                              #71.1 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:46 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              {"commentId":6894613,"authorDomain":"abeahan"}

                              Isn't the idea of stimulus money, to stimulate? Applying basic 'return on investment' criteria to how it is spent will illustrate the folly of some of these projects. To achieve the objectives there has to be long term benefit in terms of job creation, at the same time generating some net positive revenue for the State. If the number of residents who benefit from the investment of these funds can also be maximised we are on the right track. We all have the ability to hold our local politicians accountable for these decisions, make your voice heard, this is what democracy is all about.

                              {"commentId":6894613,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"abeahan"}
                                Reply#72 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":6894653,"authorDomain":"daren-d"}

                                I am reminded of a phrase I once heard. The government cannot provide you with anything that you can't do cheaper yourself. We have combatted natural selection and catered to the "unproductive/non-contributing" so much in this country that this "give me a free hand-out" parasite has become a majority vote. It troubles me to say that a democracy is only beautiful if the majority vote has Common-Sense. I feel that the reproduction rates of productive members in our society has been declining all the while, the "Give-Me-A-Free-Hand-Out" factor has been finacialy motivated by our government to breed like rats. If you are on government assistance and feel you deserve a "raise" how does one see that this happens.....Have another illigitimate child. The government is a sheep farmer, and it wants a bigger heard. But don't worry we'll start bringing jobsback to america after we Legalize the 12 MILLION ILLEGAL's in this country.......after all they'll need you working so they can get their handout TOO!

                                {"commentId":6894653,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"daren-d"}
                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#73 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:47 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":6894916,"authorDomain":"gregory-gruna"}

                                What does it take to create a consortium which would use stimulus money to upgrade a cities private businesses and private households? It would require a group of people which travel around the city diagnosing true need. There are homeowners who would welcome a crew to replace old windows with energy efficient types. The homeowners may need financial help with other types of home updates which could keep the property values up to area standards.

                                I don't want to give the idea that everyone deserves a handout! Therefore, the group benefiting would need to give something in return - possibly volunteering.

                                The consortium gains by new jobs. They may need some extra unskilled and underskilled labor to do grunt work and team with some skilled trades. The city wins with steady property values. The banks win by having mortgaged properties which are maintaining value.

                                Lets get some GOOD ideas!

                                {"commentId":6894916,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"gregory-gruna"}
                                  Reply#74 - Tue May 5, 2009 1:58 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":6895163,"authorDomain":"Jackfrost898"}

                                  How the hell did "One Nation ,under god, with liberty, and justice for all" resort to this? We are down to just our nation...

                                  Bush was no saint with his oil wars. That doesn't automatically make Obama the best candidate. Honestly I did not much care for any of my options for President this term. Why is it that we let the demecratic & republican party choose our candidates for presidency? Shouldn't we have the right to vote for anyone? Also, why is it that people that get voted into an office can not be fired by the ones above them? If I do not do my job, I would get fired! So those that get paid top dollar to keep us out of this mess, why is it they get to keep their jobs? Ultimatly I pay their salleries along with every other tax payer. If I do not like the way they are handling my city, and enough people complain to the higher powers, why must we wait till the end of his term and let that much more go to waste? (This is not directed towards the president, just all people that are voted into an office. Let your background speak for itself. Those best qualified should not have problems seeking jobs.)

                                  {"commentId":6895163,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"Jackfrost898"}
                                    Reply#75 - Tue May 5, 2009 2:09 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":6895962,"authorDomain":"lhansen-1"}

                                    Vote Quimby! At least the Simpson's town of Springfield is entertaining...

                                    {"commentId":6895962,"threadId":"570865","contentId":"2775828","authorDomain":"lhansen-1"}
                                      #75.1 - Tue May 5, 2009 2:44 PM EDT
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