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Stories of struggle and recovery in America: Msnbc.com is focusing long-term coverage on the city of Elkhart, Ind. to provide perspective on the national recession. Follow our ongoing coverage on msnbc.com. Want to share your thoughts on the how the recession is playing out in Elkhart or in your community? Comment on any of the blog posts below or become a blog contributor. Learn how

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Watching the economy rumbling by

A freight train rolls through downtown Elkhart. (Credit: John Brecher/msnbc.com)

If you want to get a good snapshot of Elkhart's economy – and at least a glimpse of how the recession is affecting national commerce – pull up a chair at the National New York Central Railroad Museum with Ron Troyer.

The museum, you see, is just down the track from the Norfolk Southern Corp.'s Elkhart Railyard. By watching the number of trains, their length and the type of freight they're carrying, Troyer said, a discerning viewer can get a pretty good idea of what products are still selling and which aren't.

"We can monitor the economy and commerce by what we see here," said Troyer, the rail museum's coordinator as well as an Elkhart city councilman. "… You can tell how many French fries they're selling in New York City by watching how many McDonald's cars roll by."

Based on his admittedly anecdotal observations, Troyer said, overall rail traffic through the busy Elkhart hub is down.

"Just yesterday, we saw a train pulling four cars of plastic beads (for use in manufacturing)," he said. "In the heyday, that train would have been pulling 20 cars."

And it's obvious the automotive industry is hurting, he said, given the dearth of vehicle carriers and railcars toting auto parts. "We just don't see many of those at all anymore," he said.

But Troyer said some industries seem to be weathering the storm just fine.

"Your double-stacks and the kinds that haul the semitrailers, those are still going superstrong, especially the UPS and mail-hauling trains," he said. "… And coal trains, they're running as good as if it was the dead of winter."

For a more fact-based assessment, I spoke with Rudy Husband, a spokesman for Norfolk Southern, who confirmed the basics of Troyer's eyeball findings.

"Our traffic volumes as compared to last year are down about 20 percent, and you can see that in Elkhart," he said. "We have certainly cut a lot of trains, and a lot of the trains are shorter than what they've normally been."

Image: Train passes through
John Brecher / msnbc.com
A train passes through Elkhart in March.

As a result of the slowdown, the company has had to lay laid off 23 Elkhart-based employees, though it still has about 550 on the payroll there, most of them engineers and conductors. All told, the company has "furloughed" about 1,200 employees, he said.

Despite the economic slowdown, Norfolk Southern still runs between 100 and 120 trains a day through its Elkhart Railyard., where individual cars and chains of cars are "classified" – or sorted -- for outbound destinations or local delivery.

Husband said that the rail line that passes through Elkhart, providing service between Chicago and Toledo, Ohio, "is the busiest line segment in our system " and that the Elkhart Railyard – -- the granddaddy of the 28 "classification yards" in the Norfolk Southern network – -- "is similar to what O'Hare is like as an airport."

The Elkhart yard uses a fascinating mix of the new and old technologies to divvy up the trains.

A locomotive pushes a railcar or cars up a "hump" in the center of the yard, then lets go, leaving it to gravity and railroad computer operators to do the rest. The cars roll down the hump and are guided onto specific track segments by operators in the yard's control tower, then brought gently to a stop by an electronic braking system.

Though times are hard in this railroad town, which has had rail service ever since 1833, Husband said that the company expects "eventually the economy is going to turn around and things are going to improve."

But asked if the Norfolk Southern brain trust had any idea when that might happen, he said he didn't.

"We really stay out of the projecting business," Husband said. "… Our CEO Charles Moorman likes to say that his crystal ball is just as murky as everybody else's."

The proprietors of the Grand Elk Railroad, a new rail line that began hauling freight between Elkhart and Grand Rapids, Mich., in March, have no clearer notion of when the local economy will pick up. But General Manager Rodney Gordon said that starting a railroad serving one of the most hard-hit areas in the country made perfect business sense no matter the current conditions.

"For us it's a no-brainer, because even though times are down, they're not going to stay down," he said. "When it does improve, we're nimble and ready to go." (Click here to read an Elkhart Truth report on the short line railroad's operations.) [

Gordon said the poor economy allowed the company, a subsidiary of Watco Transportation Services Inc. of Pittsburg, Kansas, to cherry-pick 58 employees from more than 3,600 applications, providing it with an experienced workforce from the get- go. (That didn't do much to lift spirits in Elkhart, though, as most of the positions are located in Kalamazoo, Mich., and Grand Rapids.)

But perhaps the locals and recession watchers around the country can draw some comfort in the fact that Grand Elk already is turning a profit on the operation on the 123 miles of track it is leasing from Norfolk Southern, which hauls a variety of commodities, ranging from agricultural products to aggregate (the sand and stone mixture used in concrete) and other building material.

"This line has a very good mix of freight, and that was one of the big attractions, that we're not relying on one commodity," Gordon said. "Right now we're profitable, but the margin is nowhere what we would like it to be. We're banking that it will be in the future."

Do you live in a railroad town? If so, have you noticed any difference in traffic levels since the recession took hold? Please share your observations by leaving a comment below.

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{"commentId":6516888,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

Good article. Sounds like they are on the right track.

"This line has a very good mix of freight, and that was one of the big attractions, that we're not relying on one commodity,"

Most people in construction are capable of the same thing with anything.

{"commentId":6516888,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:35 AM EDT
{"commentId":6550973,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

How does Elkhart relate to the nations energy grid? As a pivotal point?

{"commentId":6550973,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
    #1.1 - Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:33 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6516958,"authorDomain":"jelliott-1"}

    It is amusing to read this because my Grandfather who worked for the Cotton Belt Railroad through the Depression into the 1960s used the same method to judge the economy. He always said that he had an accurate, up-to-date view of the economy by watching the trains and noting how many cars were full, how many were empty, and what they were carrying!

    {"commentId":6516958,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jelliott-1"}
    • 6 votes
    Reply#2 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:39 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6517248,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

    Bob Wire

    It is amusing to read this because my Grandfather who worked for the Cotton Belt Railroad through the Depression into the 1960s used the same method to judge the economy

    used the same method

    My brother works for the railroad. Funny how we all do the same things a little differently. Did he get a degree for such wisdom? I do mean wisdom in the most respectful manner.

    {"commentId":6517248,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:56 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6517525,"authorDomain":"centvalhobby"}

    I live in Bakersfield and train traffic has slowed here as well. We've gone from 60 trains a day to about 30.

    {"commentId":6517525,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"centvalhobby"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#3 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:12 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6517870,"authorDomain":"jackrg"}

    I use this method with counting semi freight trucks at the loading dock. If trucks are not picking up and delivering at the dock there must not be any sales at the business. Time to look for a better job.

    {"commentId":6517870,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jackrg"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#4 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:27 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6518710,"authorDomain":"frenchconnection"}

    The telling story that the number of trains todaydoes not show is that most railroads are increasing track, increasing efficiency, and increasing capacity with the projection that there will be a huge demand in the next few years. These folks don't just spend money for the hell of it. Maybe the railroad companies are a better sounding board for the economy than interviewing the people on the street that just lost their job pushing paper from one desk to another or selling doodads and $5 coffees that we can all do without.

    {"commentId":6518710,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"frenchconnection"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6518747,"authorDomain":"s-mason"}

    In Santa Cruz, CA  the traffic went from three locals a week to none.  The main customer has shut their plant for a six month furlough.  Hopefully not permanent.

     

    {"commentId":6518747,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"s-mason"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:02 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6518856,"authorDomain":"davidblackshoes"}

    The rail line in our town is a passenger line, but I can judge how poor the economic situation is by the vastly-reduced amount of vehicular traffic on on our street. Especially on weekends, the roads are just DEAD around here and have been for months: people just aren't going out shopping anymore-even on weekends.

    Moreover, we have a bank right next door to us and the parking lot is about empty anymore (and the tellers & managers spend alot of time outside 'having a cigarette' [they look very bored -- and worried, too]). Even on paydays -Thurs & Fri, and mid and end month- there is markedly reduced customer-traffic going in and out.

    Grocery stores, along with WalMart & Target, for example, are also very quiet arounf here.

    Americans are just plain buckling down, guarding what money they do have right now, and not spending.

    Central New Jersey

    {"commentId":6518856,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"davidblackshoes"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:06 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6527653,"authorDomain":"slickricky"}

    To NJ-123158

    One explanation for your observations - Computer Technology and the Internet:

    People don't go shopping on Main Street anymore. They shop online or go to the Big Box Stores.

    Also, many people do all of their banking online and have direct deposit.

    {"commentId":6527653,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"slickricky"}
      #7.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:57 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":6519121,"authorDomain":"a1gunsmith"}

      Read about all the flat cars that haul trailers or boxes being parked last year, any update about those rail cars. And anything about grain cars ?

      {"commentId":6519121,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"a1gunsmith"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#8 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:18 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6519954,"authorDomain":"railfan65"}

      I live in Oakridge, Oregon on the UP mainline from the Northwest to California and some east bound traffic. we have 2 amtraks a day, and used to have about 16 to 18 trains a day, now we get 3 if were lucky. In our small yard here are stored over 100 Boxcars, that normally would be filled with plywood and other sheet goods. These cars have been here for almost a year now, as the mills are all shut down. Any lumber or plywood we see through here is from Canada, where they subsidize the loggers and the mills. Very sad. I will say this Union Pacific is taking advantage of the lull to completely upgrade the tracks, when the traffic comes back it will be ready!!!

      {"commentId":6519954,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"railfan65"}
      • 1 vote
      #8.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:52 AM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":6519540,"authorDomain":"GoshenGuy"}

      Thanks. For those of us frustrated by trains in Elkhart County, this is a reminder that we are not delayed at crossings as often now: something for which we can be grateful.

      {"commentId":6519540,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"GoshenGuy"}
        Reply#9 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
        Reply
        {"commentId":6519611,"authorDomain":"GoshenGuy"}
        Goshen GuyDeleted
        {"commentId":6519671,"authorDomain":"bwshook"}

        I have a rail line out in my backyard, and I've been watching the types of cars the trains are hauling for three months now. There are fewer cars now, down about 45% here in SE Indiana. Also, instead of 6 trains a day, there are now fewer than 3. That's a lot of something going nowhere, and shows a lack of demand. Trains ARE a good indicator of economic health in this country. I majored in Finance and Economics in college, and I know other people feel the same way. Keep your eyes open!

        {"commentId":6519671,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"bwshook"}
        • 2 votes
        Reply#11 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:40 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6519708,"authorDomain":"michigandrew"}

        Southern Pacific stores its spare rolling stock on sidings in the desert of SW Arizona (because it wont rust out there). Driving I-8 towards Yuma, you can get a pretty good idea of the economy based on how many cars are out there. And you're not just sitting around watching trains go by...

        {"commentId":6519708,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"michigandrew"}
        • 1 vote
        Reply#12 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:42 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6520010,"authorDomain":"railfan65"}

        ok small point, but Southern Pacific no longer exists, they are wholly Owned by Union Pacific, so the tracks out of Yuma are UP tracks , some of the cars may say SP, but they really are UPs

        {"commentId":6520010,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"railfan65"}
        • 1 vote
        #12.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:54 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6521238,"authorDomain":"seilertechco"}

        Could one take old box cars and make a rail camper out of them? Would the RR transport them from siding to siding or would that be too costly? How about a computer network of sidings that could be made into camps? Can one ride in a car thats attached to a freight train?

        {"commentId":6521238,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"seilertechco"}
        • 1 vote
        #12.2 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
        {"commentId":6521919,"authorDomain":"tgaffron"}

        You can do just about anything with enough money!

        {"commentId":6521919,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"tgaffron"}
          #12.3 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:04 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6526737,"authorDomain":"buckmaster128"}

          There is a box car used on spray trains that people ride in to mix chemicals but for the average passenger this cannot happen because the brakepipe pressure has to be changed from 90lbs on freight cars to 120lbs for passenger cars.

          {"commentId":6526737,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"buckmaster128"}
            #12.4 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:18 PM EDT
            {"commentId":6576504,"authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}

            Amtrak will contemplate attaching private railcars, but the price... if you have to ask, you can't afford it:

            http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/Private_Car_Tariff.pdf

            Don't even ask about you box-car turned camper.

            {"commentId":6576504,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}
              #12.5 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:24 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6876171,"authorDomain":"mertzg"}

              I remember something about being able to hitch up your own car for a fee. The view from the rail yard isn't the best and the noise could keep you up at night, though.

              {"commentId":6876171,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"mertzg"}
                #12.6 - Mon May 4, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
                {"commentId":6880268,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                Gnostix1

                Amtrak will contemplate attaching private railcars, but the price... if you have to ask, you can't afford it:

                Woudn`t it neet to have rental cabs that hitch a ride on Amtrck? Or any other track for that matter? Be a nice business that.

                Friend request sent.

                {"commentId":6880268,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                  #12.7 - Mon May 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6520066,"authorDomain":"mavistoney"}

                  Well, here in the area just southwest of Houston, Texas they are laying new track and will start running the trains through here again. They had stopped for about ten years or more and even had taken out the tracks.

                  {"commentId":6520066,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"mavistoney"}
                    Reply#13 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:57 AM EDT
                    {"commentId":6520078,"authorDomain":"jandcbeals"}

                    Nampa, Idaho is a Union Pacific stopover. At the train yard near my home, UP has been storing locomotives. I would venture to guess that there are several hundred of their older locomotives sitting on a siding that were not here 6 months ago. I have also noticed fewer trains passing by if the frequency of whistles at the crossing is any indicaton.

                    {"commentId":6520078,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jandcbeals"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#14 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:57 AM EDT
                    {"commentId":6534596,"authorDomain":"warbrill"}

                    Uncle Pete is trying to get their locomotive fleet down to about 4-5 models, to cut down on the cost of keeping parts for different engines. When they bought Chicago and North Western (about 1991?), they kept the C&NW locos that matched the bulk of their fleet (GE Dash-9s and similar) and sold the rest over time, either to leasers or scrappers. Same when they merged with Southern Pacific (Rio Grande Industries) in 1995. Literally thousands of SD-40T-2s and other older GM power (mostly) were scrapped or sold off to rebuilders very quickly. Once again, the engines that matched UP's standards were kept and repainted. Now UP is storing the older models (10 years or more), and unless traffic picks up within the next couple of years, many of them will never run again under UP colors. As mentioned in a couple of other posts, the railroads are taking advantage of this traffic lull to upgrade their physical plants, take care of deferred maintenance, and so on. During the long decline of railroads from the 1960s until the late 1980s, many railroads pared their capacity down so much that when traffic picked up exponentially in the 1990s, they didn't have sufficient capacity. They are not going to make that mistake again.

                    {"commentId":6534596,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"warbrill"}
                    • 1 vote
                    #14.1 - Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:02 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":6520115,"authorDomain":"robs-vette69"}

                    I work for a 3rd party IMC meaning (Intermodal marketing company) I move stack containers and trailers for a living for 15 years this is the worst I have ever seen it. Flat cars are parked idol all over the country from St. Louis, Mo to Big sky country in Montana Miles and miles of empty flat cars mostly import flat cars used for Import/Export container's. These containers are stacked everywhere in the Mid-west, over a couple of thousand stacked like lego's into a little town there's so many, its quite a scene... Nothing going out and nearly as many Imports coming in...

                    {"commentId":6520115,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"robs-vette69"}
                      Reply#15 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":6576580,"authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}

                      Is anyone selling containers? I know parties with an interest in using them for storage, but no one's selling rail containers and my contacts are stuck using broken down semi-trailers. The results are not pretty at the end of a long northern winter.

                      {"commentId":6576580,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}
                        #15.1 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:31 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        {"commentId":6520121,"authorDomain":"balddanny"}

                        I heard that alot of autorack railcars are sitting in sidings now, but what is most disturbing isn't that they are empty-they are sitting there full of new automobiles because people aren't buying cars.

                        {"commentId":6520121,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"balddanny"}
                          Reply#16 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":6576637,"authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}

                          This seems unlikely as the railroads charge a substantial per diem for the use of their railcars and tracks even for storage. It would be cheaper to unload the autos into a parking lot somewhere, anywhere.

                          {"commentId":6576637,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}
                            #16.1 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:35 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":7419228,"authorDomain":"traindriver91"}

                            Here in Texas we see Automobiles and other cars full---not so unusual in this economy or in Texas

                            {"commentId":7419228,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"traindriver91"}
                              #16.2 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 4:19 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              {"commentId":6520178,"authorDomain":"lghoffman"}

                              I am presently a furloughed employee of the railroad (Chicago area) and I can say our rail traffic is down from 200,000 cars from last year to about 135,000 this year. We could tell 6 mos to a year before the downturn that the economy was slowing due to decreased loads of lumber, cars and basic materials. You will be able to tell when the economy is in the upswing just the same way. Just read that CSX is down 20% as well. We have guys with many years of experience just barely holding on to positions within the company. It is going to be a while before things get any better. I am unable to collect unemployement nor am I able to collect anything from the railroad so I sit looking for another job, those of you who have jobs be appreciative of that fact. As far as increasing track and cars, railroads are not doing such, in fact freight in general is not as big as it was in the past only passenger is growing (I work both passenger and freight).

                              {"commentId":6520178,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"lghoffman"}
                                Reply#17 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":6520225,"authorDomain":"seacoast"}

                                Interesting story just goes to show how bad the economy is, especially in the heartland of America that depends so much on trains or manufaturing. 20% unemployment in Elkhart, thats unbelieveable !

                                {"commentId":6520225,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"seacoast"}
                                  Reply#18 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:02 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":6521098,"authorDomain":"seilertechco"}

                                  Actually if you consider the small businesses and people off the unemployment role some of us think it's approaching 30%.

                                  {"commentId":6521098,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"seilertechco"}
                                    #18.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:35 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":6628102,"authorDomain":"amy-20"}

                                    Don't forget about the people who can't collect unemployment. My husband has been out of work since Dec 2007. He was considered self employed so no benefits.

                                    {"commentId":6628102,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"amy-20"}
                                    • 1 vote
                                    #18.2 - Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:27 AM EDT
                                    {"commentId":6635606,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                                    Elkhart County

                                    He was considered self employed so no benefits.

                                    Been there done that. People do not consider the contribution to the economy any working person is. In my State they have stifled though legislation and laws what was once a thriving business that contibuted more than it did not.

                                    Friend request sent.

                                    {"commentId":6635606,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                      #18.3 - Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:19 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      {"commentId":6520257,"authorDomain":"allicamp"}

                                      I live in Wichita, KS. Things are slowing down here. I have a friend who just got laid off las week after being a train engineer for more than 10 years.

                                      {"commentId":6520257,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"allicamp"}
                                        Reply#19 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:03 PM EDT
                                        {"commentId":6524368,"authorDomain":"adixon"}

                                        My husband works on the RR here in MS and they have been laying off people every week for about a month now.

                                        The economy is not getting better as fast as some thought it would....

                                        {"commentId":6524368,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"adixon"}
                                          #19.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:44 PM EDT
                                          {"commentId":6527827,"authorDomain":"kevans1984"}

                                          My husband and I live about an hour south of St. Louis, MO. My husband was hired by Union Pacific in November 2008 and was set to start training January 2009. They initially pushed his class back to start in April and then he received a phone call last week that they will no longer be hiring this year. He has a cousin that has been an engineer for 10 yrs working for BNSF in Chaffee, MO and he is next on the board to get laid off. A local news station ran a story about a month back about Union Pacific. They have nearly 3,000 train cars sitting in yards in St. Louis metro area and nearly 70,000 company wide with hundreds of employees laid off.

                                          {"commentId":6527827,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"kevans1984"}
                                          • 1 vote
                                          #19.2 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:06 PM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          {"commentId":6520325,"authorDomain":"randym745"}

                                          I work from SD to Wyo coal fields and our train volume is about the same as last

                                          year. but the few freight trains we do get our shorter! The BNSF has system wide seniorty so a lot of Conductors here in Powder River division have been bumped by people from across the country! At the parking lot at depot cars from Calif and texas and ill and every other western state employees are from! Some hard feeling thou from area employees that got bumped! Hope things get better for our country soon !

                                          {"commentId":6520325,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"randym745"}
                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#20 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:06 PM EDT
                                          {"commentId":6527785,"authorDomain":"RabidBadger"}

                                          Listen...we had to go through it in the 90's, that's how I ended up in Wisconsin. The problem with the younger RR's are that they had it to good. I'm talking about buying all the toys, new cars, new houses, cycles, ect...and having less than 5 years seniority. Now, it's pity party time! Grow up. You knew the rules when you hired out, your mistake was thinking you'd never get furloughed and probably over extended yourself. Learn from it. And...Go Camels!!

                                          {"commentId":6527785,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"RabidBadger"}
                                            #20.1 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 PM EDT
                                            Reply
                                            {"commentId":6520532,"authorDomain":"lghoffman"}

                                            I am presently a furloughed employee of the railroad (Chicago area) and I can say our rail traffic is down from 200,000 cars from last year to about 135,000 this year. We could tell 6 mos to a year before the downturn that the economy was slowing due to decreased loads of lumber, cars and basic materials. You will be able to tell when the economy is in the upswing just the same way. Just read that CSX is down 20% as well. We have guys with many years of experience just barely holding on to positions within the company. It is going to be a while before things get any better. I am unable to collect unemployement nor am I able to collect anything from the railroad so I sit looking for another job, those of you who have jobs be appreciative of that fact. As far as increasing track and cars, railroads are not doing such, in fact freight in general is not as big as it was in the past only passenger is growing (I work both passenger and freight).

                                            {"commentId":6520532,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"lghoffman"}
                                              Reply#21 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6520564,"authorDomain":"secondaryacct"}

                                              I've noticed an uptick in the frequency of the model trains on my train layout. With the downturn in the economy, I've had a lot more time to run them. Of course, it's typically the same string of boxcars passing by the same depot approximately every 60 sec or so...

                                              {"commentId":6520564,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"secondaryacct"}
                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#22 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6545322,"authorDomain":"schpenkman"}

                                              Ha!

                                              Funny, Rob.

                                              {"commentId":6545322,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"schpenkman"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #22.1 - Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6576695,"authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}

                                              Start checking out the local auction houses, Rob. You might pick up nice cars still in the box for a dollar each, along with track and structures. Working locos go for a bit more.

                                              {"commentId":6576695,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"sonnetizer"}
                                                #22.2 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:40 PM EDT
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                                                {"commentId":6520625,"authorDomain":"cheekylilchatter"}

                                                The rails that go by my work is still pretty busy. I never thought about it before, but the rail I cross to go go across town, we rarely get stopped by trains there and before it was almost everytime we took that road.

                                                Over in wabash they are still experiencing heavy train traffic.

                                                I'd take the traffic headaches over the lack of business that goes along with the lack of train traffic.

                                                {"commentId":6520625,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"cheekylilchatter"}
                                                  Reply#23 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:18 PM EDT
                                                  {"commentId":6520889,"authorDomain":"neverhadoneofthese"}

                                                  I work for UP in North Platte, and I see a huge difference in car loadings. North Platte is home of the largest classification train yard in the world, and it's not up to capacity as we all know. There are what the railroad like to call "rolling storage," where all we do is move empty cars from state to state and back again because industries don't have room to take them or have the need to put product in them. Coal loadings are down in the Powder Basin River area due to blizzards, and flooding from rain, but always do better than Bulk Commodities.

                                                  {"commentId":6520889,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"neverhadoneofthese"}
                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#24 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:27 PM EDT
                                                  {"commentId":6523830,"authorDomain":"tiger-devin"}
                                                  MEDIc-1031404Deleted
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                                                  {"commentId":6520901,"authorDomain":"dbmcg2000"}

                                                  In Tulsa, traffic is also down. Trains that generally ran about 120 cars are down to about 85. Some vehicle trains operate, but not very often. Domestic intermodal seems to be about normal. International seems off a bit, usually stack trains are shorter or combined.

                                                  {"commentId":6520901,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"dbmcg2000"}
                                                    Reply#25 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:28 PM EDT
                                                    {"commentId":6520943,"authorDomain":"smithb32"}

                                                    Sure sounds just like a take-off from "Atlas Shrugged" from an earlier era.

                                                    {"commentId":6520943,"threadId":"555450","contentId":"2688666","authorDomain":"smithb32"}
                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#26 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:29 PM EDT
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