• Powered by
  • Newsvine:

 

 

Stories of struggle and recovery in America: Msnbc.com is focusing long-term coverage on the city of Elkhart, Ind. to provide perspective on the national recession. Follow our ongoing coverage on msnbc.com. Want to share your thoughts on the how the recession is playing out in Elkhart or in your community? Comment on any of the blog posts below or become a blog contributor. Learn how

Full coverage | Why Elkhart? | More about our team

Follow this project via ...
advertisement
{"contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"elkhartprojectblog"}

Don't blame unions for RV implosion

Steven Stoner attends event on the third anniversary of the Vincent Bach strike. Credit: Carissa Ray/msnbc.com

When discussion turns to the decline of the American manufacturing, labor unions inevitably come in for a full share of criticism.

That sentiment surfaced on Day 1 of the The Elkhart Project, with several readers offering the opinion that unions must be at least partly to blame for the economic mayhem being visited on the city and surrounding communities.

But in the case of Elkhart County, organized labor bears no responsibility for the precipitous decline of the RV industry for a simple reason: All the recreational vehicle manufacturers in the area run non-union shops.

In fact, there are very few union manufacturing jobs in the city at all.

Some of the last union members in Elkhart proper are no longer working. Click here to read msnbc.com reporter Mike Stuckey's report on the striking workers who walked off their jobs at the Vincent Bach musical instrument plant three years ago and were quickly replaced. You also can check out the The Elkhart Truth's report on the three-year anniversary of the strike and a timeline of key events in the dispute.

The Vincent Bach plant and those lost union jobs are among the last vestiges of a once- robust band instrument industry that, at its peak in the 1950s, produced everything from flutes to drums in 20 local factories, according to local historian Paul Thomas. (Click here to see Thomas outline Elkhart's history.)

There's an interesting back story to the absence of unions in Elkhart County and northern Indiana.

Nelson Lichtenstein, director of Center for the Study of Work, Labor and Democracy at the University of California at Santa Barbara and author of "State of the Union: A Century of American Labor," told me that the area once had a fairly robust union presence, but that those jobs were some of the first U.S. jobs to be outsourced.

"Elkhart and South Bend and a lot of other small towns in Indiana and Ohio used to be big union towns in the ''30s, ''40s and ''50s," he said. "What happened was that the industries that settled in the small towns tended to be labor-intensive assembly and these were the easiest things to send off to the Deep South or later Mexico. So the unions there really were hit hard and were pretty much gone by the 1970s and ''80s. … The memory of that tends to be forgotten."

The decline of the unions in northern Indiana mirrored a national trend that has seen the percentage of union jobs nationwide fall from a high of 35 percent in 1953 to 12.4 percent in 2008. The latter figure was actually an uptick from 12.1 percent the previous year, but Lichtenstein said he doesn't believe that signals a reversal of organized labor's long-term downward spiral. Click here to see the Bureau of Labor Statistics report.

"I would call it a blip, not a trend," he said, adding that much of the growth occurred in the health care, and the service and telecommunications sectors.

Nor does he predict any resurgence for the unions in northern Indiana and elsewhere – unless the recession worsens considerably.

"Unions typically do terrible during recessions because people are worried about their jobs and they don't want to stick their necks out" by organizing or striking, he said. "But if you have something like the Great Depression, where the old traditional elites have been discredited … workers and government say we've got to step into the vacuum. Then you can get a type of unionism and activism."

Lichtenstein said we saw a bit of that was seen in December when workers at a Chicago window and door factory staged a six-day sit-in to demand severance and vacation pay when the plant was suddenly shuttered. The attention generated by the job action prompted Bank of America to agree to pay eight weeks' salary, all accrued vacation pay and two months' paid health care.

"It was classic, like something out of a Frank Capra movie," he said. "The political stars and moons were in such an alignment that their cause became the cause of America, and BofA backed down."

{"contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"elkhartprojectblog"}
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
{"commentId":6417621,"authorDomain":"doghead6852"}

Mike,
Thanks for the informative article. Maybe one day, there
will be a Frank Capra type of movie dealing with these
modern day situations. Adios

{"commentId":6417621,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"doghead6852"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:02 PM EDT
{"commentId":6446927,"authorDomain":"mariekb31"}

This is ridiculous, we're going to need those recreational vehicles for Americans to live in after all our homes are foreclosed on! Midwesterners can't live in tents like those in the warmer western states do!

{"commentId":6446927,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"mariekb31"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":6526858,"authorDomain":"lkmystique"}

Well good thought Marie, but most of those recreational vehicles cost more than the homes the people live in now. If they can't save their $200,000 home they probably can't save their $500,000 RV.

{"commentId":6526858,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"lkmystique"}
  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:23 PM EDT
{"commentId":6566793,"authorDomain":"neal-parkinson"}

Wow, I would like to see a half a million dollar RV! lol

{"commentId":6566793,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"neal-parkinson"}
    #1.3 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:11 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6954998,"authorDomain":"jimedhay"}

    The unions have long since served the purpose. The only purpose they serve now is to bankrupt the companies that pay their inflated wages. The companies have no incentive to create a competitive and quality product built in the USA. Made in the USA only means a higher price. Grant you, the top executives from the companies are overpaid. If the performance matched the compensation, then all is well in the world. What really grips me is that a UAW worker on the assembly line performs a task that really requires little knowledge or education and they are paid an hourly wage that is equal to or more than a professional such as a nurse or pharmacist, and their benefits are a hell of a lot better as well. There is something wrong with this picture. That's why all the jobs have gone elsewhere and now GM is going to do the same. This crying, moaning and groaning is a long-time coming and the loss of community and personal pride has only perpetuated the sad story. People need to get off the lazy asses get back to basics of self-preservation. This bail out money should be going directly to the consumer and the small business people to keep jobs at home and to stimulate the economy. Sure it's sad that Elkhart can't produce their motorhomes and travel trailers, but how many of us can afford to own one, much less pay for the extra gas, taxes, and maintenance?

    AMERICA, WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

    {"commentId":6954998,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jimedhay"}
    • 2 votes
    #1.4 - Fri May 8, 2009 11:18 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6417914,"authorDomain":"justheb"}

    As a one-time neighboring resident who grew up on the Granger/Elkhart border for 16 years, has a father who worked in Elkhart for 22 years (though he has been laid-off twice in last three months as of late) and as someone who has had more then a couple part-time jobs there myself while on summer break from the University of Notre Dame, Elkhart holds a special place in my heart. In high school, I played basketball for Penn (a neighboring high school) and loved the hostile environment of playing Elkhart Central or Elkhart Memorial at North Side Gym on Friday and Saturday nights.

    My wife, kids and I now live in Dallas and have been here for the last four years. We, along with the rest of the country, have closely monitored the cities story on the network news and through this website.

    Instead of picking on the blue-collar cities population, which political party is at fault, whether leadership shouldn't have put all their eggs in one basket with the RV business or why it's getting all this attention in the first place when other cities are just as bad off, I would like to encourage recommending some productive dialogue amongst people who like a comeback story of an American small town.

    Though I'm not an expert on city planning by any means (my opinions come from the limited research I have done on the internet about the problem of late), here is what I would like to say to their residents:

    Here is What I See as the Competitive Advantages in Elkhart, Indiana:

    1. The population workforce (both blue and white collar).
    2. The production factories that have been used in the past for manufacturing that are now empty.
    3. The inexpensive cost of living and cost of running a business there.
    4. The access to Chicago and Cleveland using the 80/90 tollway and rail system.
    5. The wealth of knowledgeable academics from the nearby universities and colleges (University of Notre Dame, IUSB, Bethel, etc.) have.

    To the Political Leadership of Elkhart:

    1. I hope that you have leveraged all of the publicity you have received around the country and brought together a think-tank panel of the greatest minds from the University of Notre Dame, IUSB, Bethel, local businessmen, local residence, urban planning consultants from Chicago and future business trend consultants to devise a plan on how cities with similar problems in the past have successfully turned their cities around and you can create a solid plan going forward.

    2. I hope you have a plan to diversify your city and take it in a direction that will compete in the 21st century. Winston-Salem is a great example of this. According to Fortune Small Business, "Winston-Salem is shifting their 'economic focus from tobacco, textiles and furniture to biotech, supply-chain logistics and product distribution' and is 'broadening and better promoting' thier 'culinary and arts scenes.'" I hope you are using this same forward-thinking.

    3. I hope you are creating a workable plan that will make a thriving city in 5, 10, 20 years like Frisco, TX seems to have (google "Frisco's Millennium Plan").

    4. I hope you are finding out what needs to be done for businesses around the country to move to Elkhart, Indiana, finding thier objections and solving the problems, so that they have no reason not to move thier businesses there. An example I've read about is tax incentives, tax incentives, tax incentives!!! If you allow them to make more money then someplace else that they are currently at, they will come.

    To the Residents of Elkhart:

    1. Globalization is real and is only going to get worse for the foreseeable future for all blue-collar and some white-collar jobs (specifically in I.T.). With the rise of China and India's economies and a population of each that dwarfs ours, blue-collar work will continue to go over seas where costs are cheaper. The competitive advantages you will have as workers are in products that cost lots to ship after they are made, items that have to be made in the U.S. because of time periods of use and taking advantage of an available education system we have here in the U.S. that is second-to-none. A blue-collar lifestyle used to give you a middle class way of life. In the 21st century, this will no longer be the case as blue-collar job wages will stay the same or even decrease as the cost of living will continue to increase. The way to combat this is through education. In the 21st century, the only sure way to have a middle class lifestyle will be to have a college education.

    2. I've heard Elkhart residents say, "We were the first ones in and we'll be the first ones out." I would argue that if you don't adapt and find a way to start making products that 21st consumers want with your current resources, the outcome will be the exact opposite. Though some of the R.V. business will return when the economy gets better, you still will need to make the necessary changes with your abandon factories to start creating items that consumers will desire.

    3. You must rely on yourselves and no one else to get you out of the hard times you currently find yourself in. Though politicians and local businessmen need to have a role in making Elkhart better, each should only be seen as a part of the answer and not the whole answer to fix the problem. Do the best job you can do as a worker, as a neighbor and as part of the community to make Elkhart a better place. Expect nothing less then that from your neighbor, community, local businesses and local politicians. You will need every one of these to make a successful comeback. It will take a ton of hard work and it won't be easy, but it can and has been done before. Let every part of this puzzle know that if they aren't contributing to the final goal, they are making the problem much harder for everyone else and that is not acceptable.

    You can do it, Elkhart! There are thousands of small towns around the country just like yours that are hurting right now and need to be inspired with a success story that shows it can be done. Use this given spotlight on your city as an opportunity to show how one small town had the opportunity to fall and instead came together as a community, created a great plan, worked very hard and started to thrive again! The rest of America is watching you Elkhart, please don't let us down. Too many towns need you right now!

    The people of Elkhart, Indiana are great workers, mothers, daughters, fathers, sons and community members. I wish you all the best and I'm pulling for the comeback story the rest of America so desperately needs right now!!!

    {"commentId":6417914,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"justheb"}
    • 9 votes
    Reply#2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6424000,"authorDomain":"cguresz"}

    Wow! I'm following the story and pulling for Elkhart. I live in a small, former textile-mill town in upstate New York facing similar challenges. Go! people! Show us how working together, being open to possibilities, and using all available resources can get us out of this mess.

    {"commentId":6424000,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"cguresz"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6426070,"authorDomain":"hobomark"}

    I pray the City makes it great in a BIG way

    It is sad that the press and our Fearless leader all put the blame on everyone but themselves.

    Take a hard look at the MEDIA. They beat into our heads daily how bad it is and the same with our governmet.

    Save America

    Save the wonderful cities like this.

    STOP SPENDING wastingly.

    {"commentId":6426070,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"hobomark"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:45 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6429405,"authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}

    I'm pulling for Elkhart too, but the idiot with the ideas is just that, an idiot. Its going to take more than what he has put up to fix the issue. First and foremost, healthcare is by far the biggest draw on all business...it needs to be nationalized..yes, that will raise taxes, but it will free business to do what it does best, make, sell or ship something. We have the most expensive healthcare in the world by far, but get some of the worst treatment in the world too. (last in healthcare according to an JAMA study done last year. The best healthcare inthe world..Canada, France, GB, and Germany..all have nationalized healthcare) IN fact, we are the only industrialized nation to not have nationalized healthcare. We also have to reign in rampant ceo's. People @!$%# how unions cover the lazy worker..well, look at the ceo's. They don';t have to do a good job to get paid..at all. They can drive the company into the ground, and still get paid..handsomely, I might add..344 to 1 thats the current AVERAGE pay ratio for a ceo to worker. Thats...disgusting! If your a true American, and trly believe that all men are created equal under their creator..then you should be pissed about that disparity. If your not..then obviously your a narccisstic idiot. Immigration is a problem too, I have a solution. If a company is found to have illegals working fr them, you don't smack the foreman, or the HR guy..you smack the boss...HARD. 5 years automatic in jail, 100k fine for each worker...bet that slows down the availability of illegals taking jobs. WE have to get serious, the republicans of the last 30 years have not been serious about anything except making money..tell me that Iraq wasn't a boon for both oil companies and defense companies..of course it was..and who gives the most money to congress..gasp..oil companies and defense companies..gee..there can't possibly be a connection there eh? c'mon idiots..your basing your vote on advertising, not on hard evidence..those of you that have been voting republican based on abortion, gay marriage, or anything else for that matter..your killing america...you'd have voted in Sarah Palin for cryin out loud..you don't really believe she's capable of running anything except possibly her stockings do you??? She can see russia from her house, c'mon! get a grip, and get educated..I know it will hurt..but do it anyway, your killin our country by being so damned naive.

    {"commentId":6429405,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:57 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6429576,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

    jonqpublic

    First and foremost, healthcare is by far the biggest draw on all business...it needs to be nationalized..yes, that will raise taxes, but it will free business to do what it does best, make, sell or ship something

    Raising taxes would be extremely lower than what people pay for insurance now. The net gain for people would be ?

    {"commentId":6429576,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
      #2.4 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:33 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6439714,"authorDomain":"royce-peterson"}

      Raising taxes is never a good idea. Government needs to remember that it works for the public.

      Elkhart Indiana is a great place for just about anything. It will be back when the economy rebounds.

      {"commentId":6439714,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"royce-peterson"}
      • 1 vote
      #2.5 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:01 PM EDT
      {"commentId":6443132,"authorDomain":"sales-63"}

      Justtheb,

      Excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!

      tonyjohnsononline.com

      {"commentId":6443132,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sales-63"}
      • 2 votes
      #2.6 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:32 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6443171,"authorDomain":"djhj82"}

      Anyone who knows Elkhart recognizes that the decline has been going on for three decades. This mirrors the manufacturing sector for the nation. Indiana's three biggest exports have been corn, soybeans and educated skilled workers.

      Much of the old money has moved to Florida, the new bright stars move to other states and the remainder often are those less educated and least willing to adapt.

      The city once had a large highly profitable pharmaceutical base. AHP shipped jobs of to Puerto Rico because of tax laws. Bayer bought Miles and continued to invest until Elkhart's Mayor Perron enforced $25million charge to Miles to pay for sewer upgrades. Bayer lost confidence in the site after that and closed it down aloing with thousands of high paying jobs.

      People often avoid living in the Elkhart region preferring to go to St Joe county. Elkhart city and county has horrible control over zoning which destroyed the value of large plots of residential property. City school systems failed to compete with PHM across the county border. The city learned very late that it had ignored it quality of life investments needed to attract new highly educated residents.

      The biggest concentration of retail infrastruture within 80 miles was lost to Mishawaka during conception due to critical failure of vision by Elkhart country political leaders.

      The city's once active airport has turned into a taxpayer boondoggle.

      I applaude Conn-Selmer strikers who recognized that it was not globization which, but the greed of their own managers on the east coast which destroyed their earnings. Globilization is a fools argument for losing jobs. The Chinese are not paying for a global military power policing the world, social security, pollution controls, minimum wage laws, OSHA, etc. These folks were unfortunate that Obama just came into office, because until now, the govenment leaders from the mayor to the president did not recognize them as shareholders for whom these leaders were supposed to improve their standing.

      The RV, music instrument and housing sector had thrived because each depended on the same things for sales in the USA; high disposable income for middle america, low gasoline prices, and low easy interest. National policies followed by the Bush/Republicans have destroyed middle americas ability to pay.

      Elkhartans can be successful again like many others over the last decades. They will need to move to Chicago, Atlanta, or Raleigh and win jobs protected by the US government like banking.

      {"commentId":6443171,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"djhj82"}
      • 1 vote
      #2.7 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:41 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6443860,"authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}

      jonqpublic says: "The best healthcare inthe world..Canada, France, GB, and Germany..all have nationalized healthcare)"

      Is Michael Moore your hero? Do you really know about healthcare in Canada or are you just spouting what you've heard? As someone who works in the radiation oncology sector and who has actually seen Canadian healthcare and talked with people there, I can tell you that Canadian healthcare isn't all it's cracked up to be. In fact, they are considering privatizing elder care because they gave themselves an F on a government healthcare report. The other sectors were not much better C's and D's. Further, they are starting to face a huge financial problem to fund it and two things you have to remember is that their taxes run in the neighborhood of 50-55 percent (as do the rest of these socialized countries you mentioned) and that they are 1/10th the size of the US. So, if you think going nationalized in the USA is a great idea - wake up. Not only will your taxes go up to a staggering amount, your healthcare will actually decline.

      {"commentId":6443860,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}
      • 2 votes
      #2.8 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6444194,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

      Canadian and American health care systems compared - Wikipedia, the ...

      Government and private health and public policy analysts have compared the health care systems of Canada and the United States. [1] [2] [3] [4] The U.S. spends much more on health care than Canada, both on a per-capita basis and as a percentage of GDP. [5] In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. was US$6,714; in Canada, US$3,678. [5]

      {"commentId":6444194,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
        #2.9 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:50 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6453807,"authorDomain":"daithiarla"}

        Canadian Federal tax rates for 2009 are:

        • 15% on the first $38,832 of taxable income, +
        • 22% on the next $38,832 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $38,832 and $77,664), +
        • 26% on the next $48,600 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $77,664 and $126,264), +
        • 29% of taxable income over $126,264.

        Note
        For 2009, the federal budget proposes to increase the upper taxable income thresholds of the 15% and 22% tax brackets.

        A google search provides the correct number for Canadian taxation. As you can see , it's not 50 -55%. Are you as cavalier with all your other "facts" about the evils of universal healthcare?

        {"commentId":6453807,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"daithiarla"}
        • 1 vote
        #2.10 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:10 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6453850,"authorDomain":"daithiarla"}

        Steve in VA Beach

        The main problem at the moment is the growing number of Americans who have NO healthcare at all. As one of them, I can't imagine how my healthcare will decline. At the moment it's non-existent.

        Universal Healthcare will happen here, not necessarily because it's what the people want, but because it's what a growing number of businesses want...especially those competing with companies overseas. For instance, General Motors pays more for Health Insurance than it does for steel. Does that make any sort of economic sense?

        Countries that have government provided healthcare are at an economic advantage when it comes to companies deciding to locate their businesses in there. It's one less cost for them to worry about.

        {"commentId":6453850,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"daithiarla"}
          #2.11 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:19 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6456303,"authorDomain":"jjlatimer"}

          What a great, inspirational idea! Kudos to the author for taking the time to map out a plan that could serve as a template to get Elkhart started in the right direction. Any negative feedback from this post should be ignored by all.

          {"commentId":6456303,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jjlatimer"}
          • 1 vote
          #2.12 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:47 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6457170,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

          J. Hicks

          What a great, inspirational idea! Kudos to the author for taking the time to map out a plan that could serve as a template to get Elkhart started in the right direction.

          Very much well done. Well said.

          J. Hicks

          Any negative feedback from this post should be ignored by all.

          What started this whole mess to begin with?

          {"commentId":6457170,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
          • 2 votes
          #2.13 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:37 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6457191,"authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}

          I did discuss with a Canadian colleague his taxes and healthcare so my numbers are from someone who lives in country. My numbers certainly aren't cavalier.

          You forget all the VAT taxes that Canadians pay on top of income. I had to go to Montreal for a job. Parking your car had to be done through a valet at the Holiday Inn. You had to pay a valet fee and they taxed you on that. The taxes they hit you on for a room is TPS/GST (6%), TVQ/PST (7.5%), and HEB/HOS (3%) which ran almost $30 per day on a $160 per night room. Eat out and you're taxed enormously. I rented a car for three days and was taxed $52 GST and PST. I discussed taxes and costs of living with the waitresses at the hotel over the several visits I had there and they echoed how expensive everything is and the taxes they pay. And we're not even talking about dental coverage - which they liked even less.

          Think your meds are "free" in Canada? Think again. They are only "free" if the doc prescribes a med that is on an approved list. If it is not, you pay 100%

          Have cancer? Expect to wait up to six months before you can start radiation therapy and because their clinics are centralized, it is very possible that you live hours away. Why is this relevant? Because radiation treatment is every day for up to six weeks which means that the patient either has to travel every day that distance or find a place to stay near the treatment facility on their own dime. Then you pay $10 per day to park at the hospital.

          Need a hip replacement? Expect to wait a couple of years.

          I have been in several hospitals within Montreal and Quebec City through the course of my work. The hospitals are dingy and packed.

          While some people in the US do not have health insurance, they can go to the emergency room and get treatment. The hospitals cannot refuse you simply because you don't have insurance. In fact, many hospitals write off these visits because they know the individual can't pay - which is one reason why our costs are so high in this country. Individuals who can pay for their insurance, the government, and industry is paying for these people many of whom are illegals.

          If we think that the red tape is sticky now, just wait until Uncle Sam starts running things and people run to the hospital for stupid things simply because "it's free". And people need to get off of this "free" healthcare idea. Nothing is free - Uncle Sam will increase taxes and implement new taxes in order to pay for this monstrosity.

          Lastly, when looking at the costs to run a universal system, remember that Canada has only 30 million people and no illegal immigration problem; the USA has 10x that number.

          {"commentId":6457191,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}
            #2.14 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:38 AM EDT
            {"commentId":6458500,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

            Demographics of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            This article is about the demographic features of the population of Canada, including population density, ethnicity, education level, health of the populace, economic status, religious affiliations and other aspects of the population. Population of Canada: 31,612,895 (2006 Census).

            31,612,895 (2006 Census).

            Wow. Plenty of open spaces.

            Thanks Steve.

            Friend request sent.

            {"commentId":6458500,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
            • 1 vote
            #2.15 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:44 AM EDT
            {"commentId":6469262,"authorDomain":"sgratzol"}

            Great article. Graduated from Bethel in Mishawaka, Concord High in Elkhart, now a resident of Dallas. The people in Elkhart can do what the cities in the Dallas metroplex have done!! Will take alot of creativity and great leadership. And Elkart is just like every other city in the U.S.. They will rebound because of the drive and determination of the residents. And, do take advantage of the media coverage!!

            {"commentId":6469262,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sgratzol"}
            • 1 vote
            #2.16 - Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:02 PM EDT
            {"commentId":6507162,"authorDomain":"jdlund"}

            I wish I shared your optomism. I don't. I grew up in Elkhart for most of my life. I have a lot of friends and family from there and many of whom still live there. I truly wish for the best, but there isn't a part of me that expects it. Not any more. Elkhart is a dying model. Towns based so heavily on manufacturing jobs which are likely to get farmed out to other countries or turned into an automated process requiring less need for workers are seeing the future trend, not a temporary set back. Unless Elkhart is capable of attracting other industries there is good reason to believe that it will end up like Flint or Gary. It's the way of the world, not a bad season.

            Like you say Globalization is here, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. Frankly I think people need to abandon ship. Find a way to take night classes at Ivy Tech or something, anything. Find a way to gain training, you are never too old to find something, some way of making a living and then get out of there. It's a lost cause. This didn't just happen overnight. This isn't something new for Elkhart. Miles left about a decade back back, that band instrument company moved some factories then Bayer moved much of its operation, a slew of tool and dye factories left, and then now RV factories are closing or moving and GM is dumping Hummer (technically that's St. Joe's problem but it doesn't help the overall situation either). This has been a constant growing trend for over a decade now and it has really rapidly spead up. Face it, the factories aren't returning. The jobs aren't returning. There was a time and place when people came from all over to get jobs there. That time is long gone. It has been a solid steady decline that has really cratered rather recently.

            I get the pain. My father worked for Four Winds RVs. I have no idea what he will do for work. But there is not point in delluding ourselves into thinking Elkhart will rebound. The U.S. economy will, eventually the economy will rise again as it always has. Given that worth of economies are gauged in relation to each other, there's no reason to think our economy is no longer the dominant one and yes it will stabalize and become healthy again. But Elkhart will not. I doubt there will ever be less than double digit unemployment. Just do what you can to take care of you and yours and get out if you can.

            {"commentId":6507162,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jdlund"}
              #2.17 - Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6508896,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

              Jonathan-594081

              I wish I shared your optomism. I don't

              Any ideas on what they can do? Besides throw themselves to the wolves?

              {"commentId":6508896,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
              • 1 vote
              #2.18 - Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:40 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6717798,"authorDomain":"kistlers2"}

              I echo everything said here. You can do it. Working together and with the use of the internet, you can be reaching out to your friends all over this great country, and ask them if they know of a business that needs help in keeping up with their orders. Someone out there needs help and you have the labor force to help them quickly. The only delay will be the retooling. Network America, I know you can find folks and businesses out there that need help. Go for it. Ross H. Kistler

              {"commentId":6717798,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"kistlers2"}
                #2.19 - Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:13 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":6419132,"authorDomain":"Redslippers"}

                Having purchased two R.V's manufactured in Elkhart, sadly the workmanship and quality wern't there. Perhaps an improved quality control program which did not require the purchaser to have to spend much time in after purchase corrections would be a start. Though sympathetic, this was not a good industry town to focus on as indicative of present economic issues. Basically, I would not purchase another rv from this town. My present one, made in Canada, has been issue free.

                {"commentId":6419132,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"Redslippers"}
                  Reply#3 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:06 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6422765,"authorDomain":"mutt5"}

                  You seem to be completely denying the the union culpability in the decline of the area, read your history. The unions drove the employers out, with their constant striking and demands. Studebaker, Bendix all lived their, all sad testemonials to Union greed and stupidity.

                  {"commentId":6422765,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"mutt5"}
                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#4 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:16 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6423422,"authorDomain":"billcarr-1"}

                  You have a lot of nerve shouting "stupidity" when your post indicates you believe stupidity to be a virtue.

                  The article SAID that the unions were no factor in the RV dilemna - because all the RV manufacturers are NON - UNION. With me so far???????? I mean, that is what the article was referring to????????????

                  You should really get your **** together before shooting your mouth off.

                  {"commentId":6423422,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"billcarr-1"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #4.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:01 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6423493,"authorDomain":"cindyaschmitz"}

                  Seriously, if you don't know how to use grammar correctly should we really listen to what you have to say? All lived THERE. And if you could read you would know that there were no unions there. I think the stupidity lies with you.

                  {"commentId":6423493,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"cindyaschmitz"}
                  • 2 votes
                  #4.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:05 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6423519,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                  Richard Rohde

                  You seem to be completely denying the the union culpability in the decline of the area, read your history

                  A lot of history. Please point us in the right direction.

                  Friend request sent.

                  flikfreek

                  The article SAID that the unions were no factor in the RV dilemna - because all the RV manufacturers are NON - UNION

                  Maybe this is what he was referring to.

                  There's an interesting back story to the absence of unions in Elkhart County and northern Indiana.
                  {"commentId":6423519,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                  • 2 votes
                  #4.3 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:07 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6424427,"authorDomain":"rmiddleton00"}

                  This one falls completely on a community basing it's economy on a recreational vehicle that would only be purchased in good economic times.

                  As far as the Union, Elkhart also has a Musical Instrument factory that the union has been at strike with for over three years.

                  Kind of funny about that one.

                  {"commentId":6424427,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"rmiddleton00"}
                  • 2 votes
                  #4.4 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:24 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6425373,"authorDomain":"procon"}

                  Hey! You forgot Shakespere and South Bend, of the fishing tackle industry. The Unions busted the original companies and their presense today is just a re-seller under those labels.

                  {"commentId":6425373,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"procon"}
                  • 2 votes
                  #4.5 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:46 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6426340,"authorDomain":"difforama"}

                  Just wanted to point out AGAIN... No Unions were involved in the RV companies, very few unions are involved in the area at all. The union workers were 90% of the RV customers (the wealthy poeple stay in 5 star hotels, not RV's). The Corporate Global Companies of today have busted most of the unions. THERE'S THE PROBLEM!!! When Corporate Global broke up the unions, 90% of this country's purchasing/spending ability went down the drain, along with the middle class (blue collars). Ultimately, you can blame this problem on Corporate Global wanting a two class society (rich & poor), (haves and have nots), (wealthy and legalized slavery). This is the plan of the Illuminati being carried out by the United States Neocons! Their plan is in place and on schedule and will go through because you "Sheeple" can't pull your heads out of your A**.

                  {"commentId":6426340,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"difforama"}
                  • 3 votes
                  #4.6 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:10 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6437546,"authorDomain":"nevadaedie"}

                  Just a note on Unions. Many of our fathers fought and died for the rights Unions got for us. I'm sure you appreciate your forty hour work week, insurance benefits, paid vacation and right to representation in case the boss doesn't like the way you look some days. Without Unions we'd still have children working sixty hour weeks in sweat shops. The only people Unions don't benefit are Capitalist pigs who want to get rich off other people's sweat.

                  {"commentId":6437546,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"nevadaedie"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #4.7 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:17 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6437740,"authorDomain":"rnolonjr"}

                  Amen, Edith. Too bad most people cant see the forest thru the trees.

                  {"commentId":6437740,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"rnolonjr"}
                    #4.8 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:35 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":6438124,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                    EdithO

                    Just a note on Unions. Many of our fathers fought and died for the rights Unions got for us. I'm sure you appreciate your forty hour work week, insurance benefits, paid vacation and right to representation in case the boss doesn't like the way you look some days

                    There are many ways employers have gotten around that one. Such as "Salaries?".

                    EdithO

                    Without Unions we'd still have children working sixty hour weeks in sweat shops

                    Plenty of cheap labor from Mexico and women (to name an obvious few) have endowed employers limitless ways to get around that.

                    EdithO

                    The only people Unions don't benefit are Capitalist pigs who want to get rich off other people's sweat.

                    Read the first two. Trillions out in the ocean on ships in some computer puts the lie to that.

                    {"commentId":6438124,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                    • 1 vote
                    #4.9 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:15 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":6476136,"authorDomain":"knifethrower"}

                    i worked at Bendix and Allied Signal bought Bendix and some of their subsidairy's the union took a wage freeze and other things to help the company the next year Ceo Bossidy got a 30 something million bonus!Then they sold it to Bosch of germany!We need to recycle more and stop wasting, the government waste the most,people are coming to america for school then take the jobs,the migrants come and get free food and send their money home.Here in Michigan our govenour wants us to be a tourist state well we could be a zoo for the world to see if we don't change!bottom line VOTE the BUMS OUT of OFFICE:start recalling these lazy officails if you need a job they are hireing in government and health care!My grand father came to michigan in the 20's to work for GM then the depression came he lost everything but we survived and came back,we can do it again Bruce Little UAW local 383 michigan.

                    {"commentId":6476136,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"knifethrower"}
                    • 1 vote
                    #4.10 - Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:11 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":6423571,"authorDomain":"trpepin"}

                    An erosion of retirement benefits has more to do with the decline of the RV industry than do labor unions. People now have to work til age 65 for the health care benefits and seniors are more active. Spending retirement sitting on your butt in an RV is a heart attack waiting to happen. Babyboomers are retiring very differently (if they completely retire at all) from their parents. It's simply a consumer cultural shift.

                    {"commentId":6423571,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"trpepin"}
                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#5 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:11 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":6424462,"authorDomain":"rmiddleton00"}

                    Actually the decline in RV purchases is a direct impact of a recession. A RV is not a needed component in life. Those who purchase RV's have the spare money to purchase the vehicles.

                    Unfortunately, every plan at the moment, will tax those that can afford RV's. I feel bad for Elkhart and would reccomend finding a new industry.

                    {"commentId":6424462,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"rmiddleton00"}
                      #5.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:27 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6426834,"authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}

                      Most of the RV's I've seen through the years have had motorcycles or bicycles attached to them. Sitting on your a$$ is an option but probably not the one most owners choose.

                      {"commentId":6426834,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #5.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":6423657,"authorDomain":"evansdc2"}

                      I live in the SOUTH and we love unions!! The reason, simple. They run jobs down here, and we don't need someone "saving" our jobs for us. We do the work, get paid for it, and the companies get what they need, good products at a saleable price!! So, we say, keep it up unions, you are making us Southerns wealthy!!! As for you folks who can't keep a job without the unions...tough stuff, jerk!!!

                      {"commentId":6423657,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"evansdc2"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#6 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:18 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6424045,"authorDomain":"maxbadal"}

                      Who are you fooling?  There's no jobs in the South either.  The Carolinas used to be a haven for non-union work, but that's dried up now and has been for over 5 yrs.  Furniture, clothing, you name it has all moved to China, buddy boy.   Tough stuff yourself, jerk.

                      {"commentId":6424045,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"maxbadal"}
                      • 3 votes
                      #6.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6424056,"authorDomain":"nutgrape"}

                      When you are sitting in your trailer wondering why your job went to India/China, because you wanted to much money, I hope you are still laughing.

                      {"commentId":6424056,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"nutgrape"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #6.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6424281,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                      Keys Guy

                      I live in the SOUTH and we love unions!! The reason, simple. They run jobs down here, and we don't need someone "saving" our jobs for us.We do the work

                      Teen recounts horror of sex slavery - TODAY People

                      Oct. 9: A Florida teen recalls being tricked into sexual slavery. TODAY’s Meredith Vieira talks to the teen’s ... to “Sex Slaves in the Suburbs” at 6 p.m. ET Nov. 15 on MSNBC.

                      Sex slavery: Living the American nightmare- msnbc.com

                      A modern-day form of slavery Less publicized cases reveal ... sex slave, driving her across Tennessee, Georgia and Florida ... Alex Johnson is a reporter for msnbc.com. Cesar Rodriguez ...

                      slavery resolution - 23/6 Comedy News

                      While slavery is the greatest of Florida's crimes, several others also require atonement. ... MSN

                      {"commentId":6424281,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #6.3 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:11 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":6426864,"authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}

                      Keys Guy hate to break it to you but the unemployment in both North and South Carolina is over 10%

                      {"commentId":6426864,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}
                        #6.4 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:58 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":6436866,"authorDomain":"tommyb"}

                        I the south is so wealthy, why are southern states the biggest leeches on the federal government. Most people north if the Mason Dixon are sick of subsidizing you. By the way you all are fatter, less educated, and sicker and poorer than the rest of the country. You just to ignorant to realize it.

                        {"commentId":6436866,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"tommyb"}
                          #6.5 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:15 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":6438462,"authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}

                          Booger would care to prove it in a few months? I'm almost 50 and run 2 miles in under 16 minutes and 4 miles in 35 minutes.As for ignorant from your post I'd say you are a subject matter expert.I realize you were probably responding to Keys Guy but to paint all southerners with the same brush ticks me off.

                          {"commentId":6438462,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"belmontsanford68"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #6.6 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":6438514,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                          BLOGER-486140

                          I the south is so wealthy

                          In BLOGERs` defense..(somebofies gotta do it) he was referring to himself.

                          Friend request sent.

                          {"commentId":6438514,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                            #6.7 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:55 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":6564388,"authorDomain":"chj1943"}

                            Bloger, I'm from the south and being less educated than you, still could not believe that you didn't proofread your comments before posting them. Even with my lack of education I can still spell "if" (at the start of your ramblings you left "f" off the "I^ the south" and at the end I think you would have impressed more people in the south if you would have said "You're just to ignorant" rather than "You just to ignorant". Oh well, maybe english is taught different "up there"

                            {"commentId":6564388,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"chj1943"}
                            • 1 vote
                            #6.8 - Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:16 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":6566807,"authorDomain":"ibewwolf"}

                            I guess you should define wealth. A refrigerator on the front porch. Read the facts, standard of living, number of people living in poverty, test scores of your schools. Is there something wrong with somone having a pension and healthcare? By calling people "jerks", I think you have a streak of jealously in you. This is not a reflection on all people that live down south as I have relatives and friends down south and they are some really great people, they just don't have your attitude.

                            {"commentId":6566807,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"ibewwolf"}
                              #6.9 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:13 AM EDT
                              {"commentId":6638567,"authorDomain":"napfan1959"}

                              Actually it would be You're just TOO ignorant. I live in Michigan, but work in Elkhart (a combination for disaster) and our plant has one third of the employees it had just one year ago. We are not strictly RV, but of course sell to them, but unfortunately our other main markets, automotive, retail and construction all hit the skids at the same time and as a result our business fell off of the proverbial cliff. Not sure what the future holds, but I am looking. The South Bend area is trying to attract new industries to the area, such as nanotechnology and I am sure that Elkhart will also benefit as well if it takes off given the strong entreprenurial spirit in the county. It will take time and patience but the area will soon thrive again. Another suggestion for new businesses in the area could involve warehousing/distribution companies given the proximity to the I-80/90 toll road and the major rail presence in the area. I just hope the area will hold out until that comes to fruition.

                              {"commentId":6638567,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"napfan1959"}
                                #6.10 - Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:53 PM EDT
                                Reply
                                {"commentId":6423705,"authorDomain":"k0ld666"}

                                I've often wondered about this - when all the blue and white collar jobs have moved offshore - who's gonna buy the stuff and use the telecom services from China and the NICs? They don't buy our stuff now because they're not paid enough, we soon will in the same boat.

                                Tide will turn.

                                {"commentId":6423705,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"k0ld666"}
                                • 5 votes
                                Reply#7 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":6423957,"authorDomain":"octopushead"}

                                The decline is due to several factors. First, high gas prices! last year diesel was above $5 a gallon in some places. This makes owning and operating an RV fiscally unreasonable. Also RV's are definitely a luxury. When people are worried about losing their jobs and being foreclosed on, who the hell is going to go out and buy an RV? Lastly, due to the size and emissions of these vehicles they can't be exported outside of North America. This constricts market and sales potential.

                                {"commentId":6423957,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"octopushead"}
                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#8 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":6424205,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                                #7octopushead

                                Lastly, due to the size and emissions of these vehicles they can't be exported outside of North America

                                Navy? I think your on to something here. Cheaper emissions control somehow. Why can`t they be exported? Too expensive?

                                Friend request sent.

                                {"commentId":6424205,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                  #8.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:04 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  {"commentId":6423963,"authorDomain":"james-t-s"}

                                  This is all pretty simple economics. Elkhart is the RV manufacturing capital of the U. S. RVs are gas guzzlers. Gas got really expensive. The econony tanked. A lot of people cannot afford the gas so have no reason to buy an RV. A lot of people will have to delay retirement or go back to work. Again, less demand for RVs. The people of Elkhart better figure out something else to do, move somewhere else, or learn to go hungry and like it. The other alternative is to go beg BHO and his liberal cronies in Congress to bail them out, i.e. let them suck the government teat for the next 20 years. Anyone who couldn't see this coming last year is as stupid as Joe Biden.

                                  {"commentId":6423963,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"james-t-s"}
                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#9 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":6424156,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                                  james-426248

                                  The econony tanked. A lot of people cannot afford the gas so have no reason to buy an RV. A lot of people will have to delay retirement or go back to work. Again, less demand for RVs

                                  Makes sense.

                                  Friend request sent.

                                  {"commentId":6424156,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                    #9.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:59 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":6429862,"authorDomain":"chnodrog"}

                                    Actually, it's not that simple. RV's are so expensive that cost of gas is irrelevent. The cost of ownership for a big RV is about $20K a year. When you're already paying that much, an extra hundred bucks or so for gas is not a concern.

                                    The industry's short term problem is that people don't want to spend $100K - $200K for something they don't need with the economy in the toilet. When the economy picks up again, whoever it is who buys the things will start buying them again.

                                    Of course, they may have long term problems too. Perhaps RVs are becoming less popular. I have never understood why anyone would buy one.

                                    {"commentId":6429862,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"chnodrog"}
                                      #9.2 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:18 AM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      {"commentId":6423993,"authorDomain":"cchinn25"}

                                      I love my union and my rv.

                                      {"commentId":6423993,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"cchinn25"}
                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#10 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":6429341,"authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}

                                      too the union job to get the wages to afford an RV. Ya know, the republicans have done a fine job of fooling so many people into voting for them against their own economic benefit. Not only that, but there an awful lot of conservative idiots on this site, that frankly, without the government wouldn't last a second. Put them in with Union guys, and lets see if they can make the grade, on quality, quantity or anything else. Its telling when the Republicans and the chamber of commerce in most cities try to drive unions out. Whats more telling, is no one is @!$%#ing about the 16 million dollar salary of the head of gm, but they'll @!$%# about the 50k a year a blue collar worker should be making. And could be making with changes to the healthcare industry and ceo structured pay packages. WE are the richest nation in the world, with the lowest paid middle class, we work more hours for less money than our world partners. Don't get me started about the traitorous south either. Their congressmen gave away the farm to bring in foreign automakers to help kill AMERICAN good paying jobs. Hope they are proud. (evidently, once a traitor, always a traitor.)
                                      Don't believe me? Go look it up...Look up Jeff Sessions of Alabama, and see what he GAVE to Toyota when they moved to Alabama. Free land, no taxes, 200k per worker for training...its BS. Our own congressmen helped to kill jobs, the lack of any kind of work on the healthcare system is killing American now. Energy use, and production is now killing America. For too long our politicians did nothing because they were afraid of losing their jobs. For too long the American People have voted against their own best interest due to lack of education and understanding of a world economy. Meanwhile, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. Its fnny, The US is the first to line up to help in times of need. But as soon as an AMERICAN needs help, our own countryment get pissed and start shouting names.

                                      Yeah, I'm a liberal, progressive, and proud of it. I would think right now, the dirty name would be conservative evangelical. Someone that ignorant, I don't even want to know. (how's it feel to be labeled? liking it?) How about you all grow up. How about instead of looking for someone to blame from either side of the aisle, you figure out instead what we HAVE to do to fix this mess. We've already had one conservatives idea, lower blue collar wages and get more education (yeah, thats practical...idiot) or, maybe, just maybe, we should think about nationalizing healthcare, taking that burden off of companies, and putting it squarely on the backs of the citizens..where it belongs, cutting out the middle man. (insurance companies) From all reports now, care will go up (we are LAST in healthcare, first in cost) This allows businesses to be more competitive. Oh..thats right, some of you idiots will say, 'eek socialism" WEll, EEk, you do what you have to survive. Unless your so conservative as to be like, I"ll cut off my nose to spite my face." Either way, its time you do more than pay lipservice to these issues..come up with solutions, if you caN't come up with solutions, than get the heck outta the way for someone that has. Lets try national healthcare, and nationalizing those banks we bailed out, fix they way they are run. Regulate day trading (i.e. slow it down) Regulate pay rates and bonuses for CEO's. outlaw contracts that are not performance based, no increase in profit, no bonus. Do a bad job, get fired, no golden parachute. Its simple. WE are paying alot ofmoney to these tools, that didn't do their job...now think about this..if you did the same kind of job at your current job (provided your employed in this economy atm) would you get a bonus and a raise? doubtful. This is what is wrong with America today. For all the talk about family values, conservatives are the least likely to do anything about it. They constantly look for ways to justify their very apparent greed, and not feel bad about it. WEll, this is what you get...a crappy economy, and a disgruntled workforce. Well done.

                                      {"commentId":6429341,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}
                                      • 3 votes
                                      #10.1 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:35 AM EDT
                                      {"commentId":6445350,"authorDomain":"chicoroxannerogers"}

                                      well said charles!!

                                      {"commentId":6445350,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"chicoroxannerogers"}
                                        #10.2 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
                                        {"commentId":6475423,"authorDomain":"chrise"}

                                        Jonqpublic you sir are the idiot. You are quick to label people with your hateful brush based solely on their political beliefs but it is you who proves their lack of knowledge every time you post. In a previous post you incorrectly quoted Sarah Palin as saying " you can see Russia from my house". Since you seem to believe you are smarter than all the republicans out there you should know that she didn't say that, she said many people don't know you can see Russia from Alaska (which you can). It was Tina Fey's impersonation of Sarah Palin on Saturday Night Live who said you can see Russia from my house. We see where you get your information and opinions from. Not a free thinker are you, need to be spoon fed. I know the type.

                                        You are also quick to lobby for National health care citing Canada's system. If you knew anything about Canada's health care you would know you wouldn't want it. It is expensive, citizens are taxed at a rate of 40-50% to pay for these "free" services ( I know another poster cited some federal tax numbers but what he forgot are the high Provincial Taxes and the GST Goods and Services Tax that is levied on almost everything). To help you under stand how much that is since you've prov-en to be of questionable intelligence, that is $40-$50 of every $100 you earn ( if by chance you even work). The health care is distributed as they see fit. Yes if you have a cold or the flu the visit is free or need an x-ray its covered but try and get a hip replaced or bypass surgery. It's not gonna happen anytime soon. That is why the hospitals in bordering states are inundated with Canadians seeking care. They come to the States to receive faster care by better trained Doctors and are gladly willing to pay for it out of pocket. I know this because I deal with Canadians on a daily basis in my JOB and they have been more than willing to express their views of their health care system.

                                        You also criticize Mr. Sessions about his dealing with Toyota. Lets get this straight, you are upset because a member of Congress was able to bring manufacturing jobs from Japan to the U.S. Brilliant, again you are able to prove who the true idiot is.

                                        You call those who are opposed to turning this great Nation that was founded on the belief of individual liberties and freedoms into a Socialist one idiots. Lets look at Socialism: large government, large government programs, large number of recipients of those programs (lets face it if its "free" people are going to line up for whether they need it or not), HIGH TAXES, high unemployment, LOWER WAGES, LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING and LESS FREEDOMS. Great deal if you want to live off the government and the backs of the workers (probably what you do based on your posts) but its a raw deal for the rest of us who work hard for what we have.

                                        I live in a very nice house, I have many nice possessions and I have gone on some very nice vacations over the years but not for a minute do I feel the least bit guilty about it. The reason why is because I have worked hard for everything I have (maybe you should try it). Get off the government dime and try working for the things you want in life as opposed to waiting for someone to give them to you. There is a great sense of self worth when you finally reap the rewards of your hard work, maybe if you knew that feeling you would quit HATING on those of us who do.

                                        America IS the land of opportunity, it is there right in front of you. The key is, you have to find a way to make it happen through hard work, dedication and commitment. Its not going o be given to you, you have to earn it, just as it should be and just as our founding fathers envisioned it. God Bless America

                                        {"commentId":6475423,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"chrise"}
                                          #10.3 - Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT
                                          {"commentId":6637585,"authorDomain":"UWoA"}

                                          Amen Brother, now how do we get the message out just where do we have our march, no news station will give us blue collar types a second of time.

                                          {"commentId":6637585,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"UWoA"}
                                            #10.4 - Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:21 PM EDT
                                            Reply
                                            {"commentId":6424047,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                            if they manufactured quality rv's instead of junk, they might still be in business. I for one refuse to buy american garbage.

                                            {"commentId":6424047,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                              Reply#11 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6440943,"authorDomain":"coates484"}

                                              Then go to China for your next puchase and stay there.....IDIOT!!!!

                                              {"commentId":6440943,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"coates484"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #11.1 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:03 AM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              {"commentId":6424241,"authorDomain":"sdroehm"}

                                              Poeple who come down on the unions are just sick. Dont they realize that ANY BENIFITS they have comes straight from union people that died for them in the early 1900s. While I do agree that the unions time are ending. Stop and think about it. Im a Steelworker and DAMN proud of it!!!!!

                                              {"commentId":6424241,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sdroehm"}
                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#12 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:07 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6424548,"authorDomain":"elijahturan"}

                                              Thank God for someone who says it like it is.

                                              {"commentId":6424548,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"elijahturan"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #12.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:34 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6425200,"authorDomain":"krook22"}

                                              Are you serious. Every benefit you have is from the Union! Obviously you are not smart enough to get a job where you can fight for your own rights. My husband works in a Manufacturing job that ISNT Union, (thank god) and makes $80,000. a year w/ wonderful benefits. Who should we thank for that. Well it sure isn't the @#SF Union. He (my husband) has several friends who are Union only and get laid off at least 4 months out of the year. They just don't get it.

                                              {"commentId":6425200,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"krook22"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #12.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6425319,"authorDomain":"stephendw"}

                                              Amen!! The sacrifice of my union brothers and sisters for the past 100 years are the ONLY reason we have ANY vacation, sick leave, paid holidays, health insurance or any of the other benefits we came to aspire to. Do you think industrialists gave us those things out of the goodness of their hearts???!!!! Don't be naive!!!

                                              {"commentId":6425319,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"stephendw"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #12.3 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:42 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6427211,"authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}

                                              Steve - do you mean to tell me that they pay you to be sick? Are you kidding me? What about getting paid for what you produce? That is just one of the many things wrong with this country. Ask not what your country or your union can do for you. All of this union crap just protects the weak and unskilled. Let me opt out of the union every time.

                                              BTW the strike at Vincent Bach has gone over like a fart in church. My friends there tell me how much more productive and profitable Bach is after the lazy, non-productive, job sabotaging union pukes have been eradicated. Bach would have closed down by now had they not gotten rid of the do-nothing union. Making better instruments quicker, more profitably, with less waste (and whining from the union cry babies.)

                                              {"commentId":6427211,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #12.4 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:27 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6430878,"authorDomain":"sdroehm"}

                                              You people miss the point. What im saying is just stop and ask if the company you work for would give you ANY BENIFITS if they didnt have to? To the women whos husband makes 80 grand... not without o. t.. oh o.t. is a benifit!!!!!

                                              {"commentId":6430878,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sdroehm"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #12.5 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6474655,"authorDomain":"carriemay210"}

                                              I need the union because the Communist State of Virginia has no laws about bathroom breaks.

                                              My sadistic new employer decided that we may only use the restroom 1 time in a 12 hour shift.

                                              Also the 30 minutes mandatory lunch (potty break) is deducted from my pay along with a 4 dollar an hour mandatory contribution to a 401K of THEIR choosing.

                                              That's why there is still a need for strong unions. Corporate Greed.

                                              {"commentId":6474655,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"carriemay210"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #12.6 - Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6499580,"authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}

                                              Carrie,

                                              You don't need a union - you need a new job. 

                                              {"commentId":6499580,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              #12.7 - Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:02 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              {"commentId":6424355,"authorDomain":"wmanson"}

                                              To label all american goods as "american garbage" is short-sided and just plain wrong!! There are lot's of things made here that are excellent quality and are in demand. Case in point - Rickenbacker electric guitars are made exclusively in USA and they have a waiting list of 1-2 years of people waiting to get one. Fender also makes some of it's best electric guitars in USA (although they do make some overseas) - and they are way in demand. Elkhart used to make some of the best band instruments around.

                                              Instead of being so negative about the quality of goods made in America you might want to check around and find that there are lot's of great things created here - and if you don't like it then please move to Canada. Thanks!

                                              {"commentId":6424355,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"wmanson"}
                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#13 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:18 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":6424398,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                              I do live in Canada

                                              {"commentId":6424398,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                Reply#14 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:21 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":6425451,"authorDomain":"procon"}

                                                Then, stay there.

                                                {"commentId":6425451,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"procon"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                #14.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:53 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":6431093,"authorDomain":"fizxdude"}

                                                That explains a lot about you, Ray.

                                                {"commentId":6431093,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"fizxdude"}
                                                  #14.2 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:09 AM EDT
                                                  {"commentId":6436989,"authorDomain":"tommyb"}

                                                  To the Chinese all you canadians are is one big bucket of natural resources to be plucked and %&*2**. Your country wouldn't last five minutes with out you big brother protecting you.

                                                  {"commentId":6436989,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"tommyb"}
                                                    #14.3 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:25 PM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":6424435,"authorDomain":"r-turrubiates"}

                                                    As was noted in the article, unions did play a part in the decline of this Indiana town, if you're ever worked with unions you'd realize that the leadership is greedy and do nothing but feed off their membership, unions provide nothing to an economy except take from it and when the membership dies most of the leadership wil still have their large funds to pull from, maybe 100 years ago unions provided something but now they ruin companies because of their demands and ability to keep low producing employees around

                                                    {"commentId":6424435,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"r-turrubiates"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#15 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:25 PM EDT
                                                    {"commentId":6424723,"authorDomain":"elijahturan"}

                                                    While I never claimed that organized labor was perfect, the real corruption takes place among the corporate ownership. It is not fair to criticize union workers for greed without also looking at the demands of the CEO. Demanding health insurance, a pension and a living wage for a hard day of work isn't greedy. Owning a private jet is. Let's be a little more fair in our comments please.

                                                    {"commentId":6424723,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"elijahturan"}
                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    #15.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                                                    {"commentId":6424840,"authorDomain":"martinez-michaeld"}

                                                    illegal immigration is the problem also. many of these people come to the elkhart area and are taking our jobs from us. i do not blame them for coming here and looking for a better future, i blame the business owners who turn their head and pretend that they don't know that someone is an illegal alien. i mean think about it, why do these business owners always hire a non-english speaking person who obviously had to have their child fill out their application over someone who obviously is legal and from here? money! they are coming here and are willing to take almost nothing for their labor. i am a union electrician and they are even doing my work now. i had to go through 5 years of school and they are hired off the street. unions are here to give ordinary people the opportunity to live a comfortable life. the greed lies with the business owners who want labor for nothing. illegal immigration would not be a problem if they could not get jobs here.

                                                    {"commentId":6424840,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"martinez-michaeld"}
                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #15.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:01 PM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":6424452,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                    It is obvious that most americans don't buy american products, as most of the world will not buy american products, for the same reason JUNK! Just look at Detroit.

                                                    {"commentId":6424452,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                      Reply#16 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":6441027,"authorDomain":"coates484"}

                                                      Do you blow-dry your hair in a microwave oven????????

                                                      {"commentId":6441027,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"coates484"}
                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #16.1 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:10 AM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      {"commentId":6424591,"authorDomain":"crvanburen"}

                                                      i have lived in goshen ind all by 45 yrs. and if you have never lived or worked here you cant say nothing i have worked in rv s for 20 plus yrs. and yes gas prices last year was a big part and the mexicans that are not to be here,it started about 15 years ago they would come & pick in the fields thats fine because then they would go back home, but then they stay, told family about it and this is one of the biggest area of mexicans that are not to be here, they steal ss card no. they do not flush there toliet paper they throw it on the floor.If they would come in and sent the ones home that do not belong here more then 1/2 would still have jobs. and the ones who vote for obama you will see he his on his way of being the next hitler.he his only bailout the ones who gave him so much money to get elect.

                                                      {"commentId":6424591,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"crvanburen"}
                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      Reply#17 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:38 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":6424772,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                      This is soooo true

                                                      {"commentId":6424772,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #17.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:54 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":6429368,"authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}

                                                      okay, your an idiot. First and foremost, its not about Obama, he inherited a mess. If anyone caN be called hitler, it was Bush, he ignored our constitution. NOw, lets get on with the serious stuff..btw, poster, your english is worse than the mexicans. This is a serious problem..the lack of education..illegal immigration...all of it geared to make money for someone not in the middle class. You want a scapegoat...look in the mirror. You voted in the party that took all this away, you voted against your own economic needs, by worrying about stupid crap like abortion, and gay marriage..way to keep your eye on the ball. Look at history..biggest deficits..republicans..biggest job losses, again, republicans, who fights against minimum wage, republicans, who fights against good healthcare..again, republicans, who gets us into wars..republicans.

                                                      ON the other hand, our nation, when its most productive...democrats,

                                                      when its most kind, and compassionate-democrats, smallest government, best wages, most accessible..thats right..democrats..but, don't believe me..look it up...you'll find you've been mightily fooled all these years..and all you have to do, is look it up..of course, if your not willing to look it up, then you REALLY are as STUPID as you sound.

                                                      {"commentId":6429368,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"johnqpublic2004"}
                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #17.2 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:47 AM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":6434891,"authorDomain":"crvanburen"}

                                                      let me tell you i am far from being stupid, jonqpublic you better start looking in a mirror because democrats are all scamers, you will see 1year from now we will be worst then we are now and till you work with illegals you cant say nothing because they are the worst ones to work with so you look it up and keep seeing hitler and his puppets take over and you will be kissing his a— — . and just dont pay your taxes and you can go to work for him.

                                                      {"commentId":6434891,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"crvanburen"}
                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #17.3 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:42 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":6443832,"authorDomain":"maxbadal"}

                                                      mama, you must not be a true American.  If you were, you would know how to properly write in your native language, English.  Have some respect for the period.  The illegals are the worst?  After reading your rant, I can tell that your level is below theirs. 

                                                      {"commentId":6443832,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"maxbadal"}
                                                        #17.4 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:10 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":6444136,"authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}

                                                        "its not about Obama, he inherited a mess"

                                                        A mess created by congress - specifically, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, among others.

                                                        "Look at history..biggest deficits..republicans." Not true - Spending is controlled by congress and this is from the AP this week:

                                                        " WASHINGTON (AP) - The Treasury Department said Friday that the budget deficit increased by $192.3 billion in March, and is near $1 trillion just halfway through the budget year, as costs of the financial bailout and recession mount.

                                                        Last month's deficit, a record for March, was significantly higher than the $150 billion that economists expected.

                                                        The deficit already totals $956.8 billion for the first six months of the budget year, also a record for that period. The Obama administration projects the deficit for the entire year will hit $1.75 trillion.

                                                        A deficit at that level would nearly quadruple the previous annual record of $454.8 billion set last year. The March deficit was nearly four times the size of the imbalance in the same month last year."

                                                        Congress has been controlled by the Dems for over two years – exclusively blaming repubs for this deficit is disingenuous at best.

                                                        "who gets us into wars..republicans"

                                                        Civil war was caused by the inaction of Buchanan - Democrat

                                                        WWI entered under Wilson - Democrat

                                                        WWII - entered under Roosevelt - Democrat

                                                        Korea - entered under Truman - Democrat

                                                        Vietnam - entered under Kennedy and escalated under Johnson - both Democrats

                                                        Each one of these wars killed more Americans than desert storm, Iraqi freedom, and Afghanistan combined.

                                                        "you'll find you've been mightily fooled all these years..and all you have to do, is look it up..of course, if your not willing to look it up, then you REALLY are as STUPID as you sound. "

                                                        I couldn't have described you any better jonqpublic.

                                                        {"commentId":6444136,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"hunnicutts"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #17.5 - Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:43 AM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        {"commentId":6424784,"authorDomain":"crvanburen"}

                                                        thank you ray-1022124

                                                        {"commentId":6424784,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"crvanburen"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#18 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":6424787,"authorDomain":"eddie1"}

                                                        without unions in this country you will work for minimum wage as companys and big corperations take your wages pocket them and live a lifestyle that you can only dream about who says you are not entitled to good wages in america unions had nothing to do with the decline of people buying rv its simple economics pay your mortgage buy your groceries and buy what you can afford enough said unions are what america used to be and should be in the future

                                                        {"commentId":6424787,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"eddie1"}
                                                          Reply#19 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:57 PM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":6424807,"authorDomain":"cornbeltrail13"}

                                                          I have worked in Elkhart as a UNION railroad employee. The Norfolk Southern is probably the biggest employer in Elkhart at the present time and I know that this companies employees are unionized.

                                                          If you want to blame someone for jobs going overseas, don't blame a union worker! Blame those that will work for low wages with no benefits! Work in places where the employers don't give a d#@$ about your safety and welfare. Only the bottom line and THEIR greed.

                                                          Unions brought the 40 hour work week, safety to the workplace and supported the economies of the towns they are in. How much does a person that makes say $9.00 per hour and no benefits support their local economy? Not very much I would venture to say!

                                                          Instead of "bashing" union workers, why not embrace the concept and unionize! You can be part of the problem or part of the solution! Your choice.

                                                          {"commentId":6424807,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"cornbeltrail13"}
                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          Reply#20 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:58 PM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":6425277,"authorDomain":"ritaraec"}

                                                          Agreed

                                                          2 things for you anti-union people...

                                                          1. If you don't think workers need a contract (union) then why do the CEOs and executives have contracts...

                                                          2. Since the '80's when unions were being demonized and broken, CEOs have gone from 40X the average workers wage to between 400 and 800 times the average workers wage while the average workers wages have stagnated or declined. Wal-Mart spends millions keeping unions off the property while their CEO makes twice as much as the average CEO.

                                                          {"commentId":6425277,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"ritaraec"}
                                                            #20.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:37 PM EDT
                                                            {"commentId":6425580,"authorDomain":"procon"}

                                                            Ever try to fire an incompetent, lazy, dishonest union worker? Hah! I have and the results were rewarded with cheers from the UNION workers that had to put up with that kind of co-worker. It took three years too long and cost over $12,000 to do. How fair is that?

                                                            Too many union workers hide behind work rules that demand a $30 per hour electrician to plug in his extension cord. Next time you cheer for union workers, watch your local highway crew patching pot holes, or trimming bushes. Your taxes at work!

                                                            {"commentId":6425580,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"procon"}
                                                              #20.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
                                                              {"commentId":6430982,"authorDomain":"sdroehm"}

                                                              my contract is very clear on how to fire a bad employee. it is not that hard but my company never wants to follow the contract.

                                                              {"commentId":6430982,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sdroehm"}
                                                                #20.3 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:02 AM EDT
                                                                Reply
                                                                {"commentId":6424880,"authorDomain":"enolan123"}

                                                                Unions: Junk in, junk out!

                                                                {"commentId":6424880,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"enolan123"}
                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                Reply#21 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:05 PM EDT
                                                                {"commentId":6424994,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                                Exactly!

                                                                {"commentId":6424994,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #21.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:14 PM EDT
                                                                {"commentId":6425616,"authorDomain":"procon"}

                                                                You got that slightly wrong. Over paid junk in and very expensive junk out.

                                                                {"commentId":6425616,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"procon"}
                                                                  #21.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:07 PM EDT
                                                                  {"commentId":6431128,"authorDomain":"sdroehm"}

                                                                  what a bunch of crap!! Do you realise only 12% of workers are union? That means alot of junk comes from you other 88%. Get a life.

                                                                  {"commentId":6431128,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sdroehm"}
                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #21.3 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:12 AM EDT
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  {"commentId":6424958,"authorDomain":"crvanburen"}

                                                                  amen hispanic ex texan if they would do something to those owners like weekends in jail then maybe they would think twice about who they hire

                                                                  {"commentId":6424958,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"crvanburen"}
                                                                    Reply#22 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:11 PM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":6425105,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                                    This is a great idea that I fully support, since we in Canada are faced with the same problem, and Government does nothing to stop Illegal Immigration from mexico or asia. What part of the word Illegal, do our governments not understand.

                                                                    {"commentId":6425105,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    #22.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:24 PM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    {"commentId":6425030,"authorDomain":"wwiley1"}

                                                                    Of course you should blame the workers. I mean, if they have no unions. Unions are of course the worst, but if there are no unions, then blame the workers. Haven't we all been educated by our "liberal" media that the multi-millionaires and billionaires in this country are beseiged victims of lazy, greedy people who want to make $70,000. per year so they can live with their families in a middle class life-style? Don't you read the Wall St. Journal to see how big corporations are just on the ropes from greedy, lazy middle class and poor people- not to mention the Communist government. You know, the people that were dogging them so hard with their "regulations", that a guy like Bernie could only steal $80 billion before he tripped up? Be good little fascists and listen to your Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, ad nauseum. They will give you the proper scapegoats to hate. We know that corporate America is the repository of all that is great, good, patriotic, etc. in the world, and if we can just get rid of all of those worthless middle class and poor , so-called Americans with their so-called "rights", and also those Democrats in the government who want to protect them, then everything will be right and good in the good ol' USA. How anyone could think that the wealthy in this country could be responsible for anything that goes wrong, and not, as we know it to be, the poor is beyond me. The middle class and poor people have been running this country for the past 8 years, and frankly they have made a mess of it.

                                                                    {"commentId":6425030,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"wwiley1"}
                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    Reply#23 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:17 PM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":6427351,"authorDomain":"carh8tr"}

                                                                    Well said Wayne. The Corporations and rich have managed to turn us against each other. The working people need to organize (unionize) against them, not  fight amongst themselves. United we bargain, divided we beg.

                                                                    {"commentId":6427351,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"carh8tr"}
                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #23.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:42 PM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    {"commentId":6425097,"authorDomain":"peggyjh"}

                                                                    What killed the RV industry was oil speculation and our government's decision to go green. Oil will go up w/o OPEC decisions or speculators because it makes it easier to turn to alternate fuels if the cost of oil is high. If the gov has to tax oil companies more or tax oil more at the pump the gov will force oil prices up. Last year when Congress was screaming about the $4.00 per gal gas, they were showing their two faces. One face forces oil prices up so they can more easily sell their green agenda and the other face acts outraged when their tactics work. I feel for Elkhart and couldn't believe Obama had the nerve to actually go there decry Elkhart's misery when he himself is part of the problem.

                                                                    {"commentId":6425097,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"peggyjh"}
                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    Reply#24 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":6425210,"authorDomain":"cornbeltrail13"}

                                                                    Ray, don't buy any "American Garbage". The next time you fly, how about flying on a "Canadian built" aircraft. They don't build any; right? The USA exports a lot of items to Canada because YOU can't produce them!

                                                                    The American union worker IS the backbone of labor in our country. Don't criticize us until you work a day in OUR shoes!

                                                                    {"commentId":6425210,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"cornbeltrail13"}
                                                                    • 4 votes
                                                                    Reply#25 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":6425302,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                                    The great american union has destroyed your nation to the point of near extinction. Most american products are not built by americans, just illegal immigrants posing as americans. Since we provide you with more oil than any other nation,I guess this makes us your life blood.

                                                                    {"commentId":6425302,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                                      #25.1 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:40 PM EDT
                                                                      {"commentId":6425431,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                                                      The American union worker IS the backbone of labor in our country

                                                                      Then start helping the rest of us. The Federal Union Bill. Do you supportit?

                                                                      Check out our new TV ad – then help us show it to as many people as possible.

                                                                      Only link I have. Follow the video link. If not specificly why not?

                                                                      {"commentId":6425431,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                                                        #25.2 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:52 PM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":6425510,"authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}

                                                                        Yes I do.

                                                                        {"commentId":6425510,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"sheepspenrv"}
                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #25.3 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:59 PM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":6427357,"authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}

                                                                        jbdaad - excellent idea. End the secret ballot. Your ideas won't stand on their own. So you try to legislate them?

                                                                        If you spent more time studying history and less time at the union hall campaigning for a "living wage" you would know that the Federal Union Bill is unconstitutional.

                                                                        Remember people, necessity is always the justification that tyrants give.

                                                                        {"commentId":6427357,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"peterlongshotpolitics"}
                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #25.4 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:43 PM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":6429625,"authorDomain":"jbdaad"}

                                                                        Free Man-1022350

                                                                        Your ideas won't stand on their own. So you try to legislate them?

                                                                        What do you mean?

                                                                        Friend request sent.

                                                                        {"commentId":6429625,"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605","authorDomain":"jbdaad"}
                                                                          #25.5 - Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:40 AM EDT
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
                                                                          {"canLink":false,"threadId":"551055","isPrivate":false}
                                                                          Leave a Comment:
                                                                          You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                                                          As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                                                          {"threadId":"551055","contentId":"2665605"}
                                                                          Start TrackingStart Tracking
                                                                          Stop TrackingStop Tracking